Breeding Journal, Species: Pterapogon kauderni (Jv.- rellik)

General
Species: Pterapogon kauderni  
Social Structure:  mated pair 
Size of Individuals:  1.5-2" each
Age of Individuals:  6 months
Date added to Tank:  04-28-2013

Broodstock Tank Details
Size of Tank:  8 gallon biocube
Substrate Details:  reef sand bed (1.5-2" deep)
Filtration Details:  custom designed floss, bio-ball, chemi-pure flow through chamber system. 
Water Changes:  5g weekly (exchange with main display tank)
Water Temperature:  80 F
Lighting:  compact 50/50 actinics with 3/4w lunar moon
Lighting Cycle:  compacts on at noon, off at 9pm, lunar on 24/7
Other Tank Inhabitants: clean up crew (crabs, snails, brittles...etc...)                

Broodstock Feeding Details
Food Types:  Mysis shrimp, live brine (enriched with selco)
Feeding Schedule:  1-2x daily

Spawning Details
Date of First Spawn:  5-18-2013
Spawn Time of Day:  3:00pm
Dates of Consecutive Spawns:  5-18,5-19
Courtship Details:  she shutters next to him and vice versa, both swim constantly side by side, finally he shutters next to her until she drops eggs, and he gulps them up! 
Egg Size:  mouth brood- so its hard to see but ~2mm 
Egg Color:  mouth brood-so its hard to see but slight pinkish orange color with silver bits
Egg Count:  unknown.

Hatch Details
Hatch Date:  06-07-2013
Hatch Time of Day:  0100
# Days after Spawn:  19
Larvae Description: 50% fully formed, 50% balled egg mass still. 
Consecutive Hatch Dates:  06-08-2013


Larval Tank Details
Temperature:  82
Size of Larval Tank:  wine glass tumbler- then switch to a 2.5g tank once actively 'swimming' 
Substrate Details:  bare bottom
Other Tank Decor:  fake plants, 2 small pieces of live rock. 
Filtration Details:  bubbler. 
Lighting:  ambient light
Lighting Cycle:  na
Water Changes:  25-50% every other day. 

Larval Feeding Details
Food Types:  nhbbs, bbs, TDO-A and TDO-B1
Feeding Schedule:  constantly. brine of both sizes are left in all the time, tdo is offered once a day. 

Metamorphosis/Settlement
Date of Settlement Start:  06-08-2013
Days after Hatch:  1
Date of Settlement End:  06-08-2013
Description of Fry:  miniatures of adults. 

Grow-Out Tank Details
Temperature:  80
Size of Grow-Out Tank:  2.5g
Substrate Details:  bare bottom
Other Tank Decor:  fake plants and 2 small pieces of live rock. 
Filtration Details:  none- water changes
Lighting:  ambient
Lighting Cycle:  na
Water Changes:  every other day 25-50%
Size at Transfer:  as soon as they could 'actively' swim 
Age at Transfer:  4-6 days old

Grow-Out Feeding Details
Food Types:  brine and TDO series
Feeding Schedule:  constantly

Additional Information

(No Pictures or Videos in the Section Please)
Miscellaneous Information: 

Although babies are born already achieving a state of settlement, I chose to put this batch of babies settlement as 2 days after their 'hatch' date for a couple of reasons. 1) this was an incubation hatch and only about half of the eggs were 'open' the rest were still balled up, either way in both cases the babies or egg masses still had yolk sack bellies and 2) babies were not truly free swimming until after that second day post hatch. 

You will be required to provide photographic or video evidence in this thread of each event submitted for the MBI Program.
If your thread does not contain these photos the MBI Committee will not be able to approve your reports. PHOTOS AND VIDEO S MUST BE PLACED IN ADDITIONAL POSTS, NEVER IN THE FIRST POST IN A JOURNAL.

Alrighty, these guys are on day 18, I saw the male trying his best to sneak a bite in when I fed today... and looked a bit smaller in the mouth. I suspect he might have done a partial swallow. I will strip on day 20 if I can just get him there... a couple more days! 
 
Here's a nice profile pic of his jaw... sorry for the algae, this guy will drop a clutch if your look at him wrong, let alone clean the tank!

Attached Image(s)

Well epic disaster... (or so I thought). In the wee early hours this morning before I was going to head to bed I checked the male once more, only to find him swallowing some. He now has about half left in his mouth, over the last couple of days he's been getting smaller and smaller. So, since today was day 19 I went ahead and attempted to strip this male. He would have nothing to do with it though!!!! Refusing to release any eggs it took some serious effort to retrieve even partial clutch here. He still has some in his mouth, that I could not get without practically dissecting the thing! So, if he swallows or carries them, oh well!
 
So, on to falsely incubating these eggs and fry. At this point there were 8 retrieved, 2 died overnight (possibly dead already?). The rest are in my wine glass tumbler. I hope they pull through, with this tumbler set up I don't have any antifungal preps or UV sterilizers running so we will just cross my fingers (and toes!). I am hoping that this far along we will be fine without those though.
 
Many are swimming with there egg yolk sacks in the glass this morning, so looking good so far. 
 

Here is the wine glass tumbler their currently in. 
 
http://youtu.be/giC3TZs4dpQ
 

Oh man that sucks that he gets so close, but doesn't make it all the way.  Maybe time with change things for him.  One of my pairs was proven when I bought them (babies swimming in the tank with them) and the male took 8 months of breeding before he held a batch to term for me.  He held twice, and his last batch he swallowed on day 5.  Go figure.  Fussy things...

Don't let fear and common sense stop you! =]

so do you take your 5 day eggs and incubate them? what kind of success rate you getting with those guys? Yeah, this guy is very young... just shy of 7 months old now, I was impressed he was even breeding to begin with! Tiny little tike. But I have 8 babies alive now. And yes, he swallowed the rest. oh well..maybe these 8 will be champs. 

The pair I had spawned at a fairly young age. Took them a couple of tries to get the hang of it but produced a nice amount of fry. I never tried to incubate eggs on my own though.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

So far it seems to be working... I am kind of winging it though. I think since they are so far along development it should be ok. most are already swimming about, just have rather large egg yolk sacks still. We shall see! Exciting adventures indeed!  
 
I have offered the male food every two hours today, which he ate like a little piggy. Don't really blame him... 

AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My female attacked the male....!!!!!!!!! GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR...... she killed him overnight! Total frustration! 

That happened to me once when I tried to switch males.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Fishtal, have you ever mixed two pretty distinctly different sized cardinals together, and had them be ok? I have this female (known) barely 1.5 inches, certainly no more than 2", and I have two larger cardinals... (I suspect their females, but don't know for sure) that are well over 2.5 possible 3" each. Wondering if I should do some swapping around now to find a new pair. 

I only tried it once. When I put the original male back they started spawning. Your bigger ones are probably starting to get old.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

I imagine they are pushing the age there. I know one of them is 4 years old, the other is just over 3. Never did spawn, just killed mates every time I put any in there. These two are finally acting 'tolerable' towards each other, still not cozy though. Can be kind of nippy at each other but no one's killing any one, mostly just ignore each other. 
 

Well, all 8 babies are hanging in there! I lost my camera card so I'll have to post pics soon. They are so stinking cute though! Have all begun actively swimming about the glass now, I may need to go ahead and put them in the 2.5g tank. Too bad that's occupied with my baby clarkii right now. I wonder what size difference between the two could be mixed in together?... a thought, might try it next time, I don't want to risk losing these 8 babes, or that clarkii. 

I haven't raised Clarkii's but I have put other juvenile clowns in with juvenile Banggai and had no problems. As long as the Banggai are eating well they should be fine.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Alright pictures of babies are over due! These boys and girls are 8 days old, eating TONS of bbs and TDO-A (might give B1 a try within the next couple of days).  
 

Attached Image(s)

Ok, here's a quick video update, of the babies at 11 days post hatch.  
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB7SJ5murL4

11dph

Attached Image(s)

Ok, one baby this morning was found huffing and puffing along the bottom... possible ammonia spike overnight. Tried feeding mysis (which they refused to take), and didn't get to siphoning of the bottom! Stupid!  But... a quick water change and all was good with that. I think one of the babies got pinned with the siphon house though, and bit the dust. So... alas, I lost one in the end!  
 
Real bummer, 18 days old and 8 left. 

Attached Image(s)

Here is a picture of the two largest babies at 18 days post hatch! They sure are growing! Trying to feed fine sized frozen mysis-will not take to it. Nor will they take to the TDO at any size anymore. Currently eating a ton of newly hatched, and enriched (2nd & 3rd naupliar stage) brine shrimp. 
 
Everyone is vigorous at eating though, often to the point they have such fat little bellies they have to take a rest for a bit. Just sitting towards the bottom of the tank... guts full! Fat little cuties! 
 
Will keep attempting mysis (finely shredded) and consistently offer TDO, was hoping to raise some 'non-picky' eaters.  

Attached Image(s)

Well sad sad day... last week (sorry I forgot to update)... I lost 8 of the 9 cardinals. Stupid mistake too! ugh!  As I introduced finely shredded frozen mysis shrimp to these guys. My one year old fell off the couch and busted her lip... so naturally I attended to her... TOTALLY FORGETTING THE UNEATEN FOOD LAYING ON THE BOTTOM OF THE BABY TANK! ... well to say the least... nitrites spiked and all but two were dead! Those two huffing and puffing the night away in a flow through system in my 90 reef. (quickest source of clean aged water I had at the time)... one pulled through, the other didn't! 
 
So, sadly I report the lost of more babies. (sometimes I feel like a real idiot with the mistakes I make. ugh!)... 
 
But proudly I do report my one surviving baby has officially made it half way... 30 dph today! yipee!!!! Here's a picture of him! 
 
    

Here's the last baby 30dph!  

Attached Image(s)

34 dph and refuses to eat anything but brine shrimp! I have now offered him frozen mysis, frozen DIY mash (will nip at but not regularly eat), frozen bloodworms, frozen rotifers (nips). I guess it's time to break into the live cultures for this little guy! First up live brine. lol.  
 
He did eat a couple feedings in a row of the gelatinized brine shrimp packets... mmmm...  but has since then refused? 
 

39 dph, still refusing to eat anything but live brine. I have him eating enriched baby and jv. brine... nothing larger than 300µ right now though. 
 
Had a touch of Artemia shock, but quickly bounced once I started soaking brine in Selco. seems to be doing the trick just fine. 
 
I guess I will offer him live mysid jv. and see if he'll go for that? (really didn't want to dip into my live mysid culture yet, still 'young' and not very many in there!). 
 
Have to come up with a better system of feeding this guy, he eats almost constantly and currently is in the flow through hatchery in the 90g reef. But brine can get through the bottom and food is thus wasted... so up until now I have just pipetting him 1ml of shrimp (kinda slowly) every time I pass the tank and think of it. alternatives??? He is growing and doing well with this though, I guess if it's not broken I shouldn't try and fix it. lol. 

42 days old and still only eating bbs... does anybody have any suggestions to get this guy eating anything else!?!?! I am more than happy to keep feeding him enriched baby brine... but surely I can ween him to some much more efficient food. He is consuming so much by himself that I am confidant a larger food would be more ideal ???? 
 
Any ideas?

ok 47 days old and I finally got the little diva to eat something other than live brine! ... Live tigger pods!  Whatever...!!! I am not sure if this baby is just interested in prey that have the motion... maybe that's why he's not favoring frozen foods... if this is the case, why isn't he eating the live mysids??? I think this little guy (or gal)... must just be an extremely picky eater, or just doesn't know how to transition to the next food. 
 
Really wish I had some other babies around to put him in the tank with, I'm sure he could pick up a thing or two from some other little ones! 

Ok, well.... my little guy has officially made it to 60dph... (refusing to eat anything but bbs still, but 60days non the less!)... 
 
I am officially happy with this little diva!  
 

 

 

Cute.

check out Kathy's Clowns, llc website:
http://kathysclowns.com
Captive bred clownfish and more
(Wholesale to the trade.)

Thanks- I think I'll end up keeping him as a breeder... kind of growing attached to him.   

I think my lone baby didn't take to finely diced frozen mysis until about 5-6 weeks. I didn't push the "weaning" process too hard. This one is now about 6 months old, and eats frozen like there is no tomorrow, but won't touch flake or pellets. Hopefully I'll have some more babies soon to try weaning over to frozen, as well as dry foods.

I think I did read a post somewhere of a breeder who feeds only tdo-A, no bbs at all.

Btw- congrats with this one!

Thanks Lrood... yeah, I'm happy he stuck through, the rest of them didn't make it But, hey, I'll take one over none any day! lol.... I'm finding that a lone baby is MUCH harder to wean off of bbs than a school of them. Here he is at almost 10 weeks and shows absolutely no interest in anything... 
 
I did feed a frozen DIY mash of some pretty small particles (left over from adult feedings)... and he 'picked' at it, but mostly spit it back out. ... but that he 'picked' at it was hopeful to me! Any finely ground up mysids he just spits out or ignores all together. ugh. But, I'll take the challenge. I'll have more babies soon enough to put him with and he is very small for his age so, It won't be long before he learns! 
 
I really wish I could get my T. californicus population to boom! He has eaten that, but I don't have enough to sustain him! 

Ok 71 days old! 1/2" big and we FINALLY found another food (frozen, not live!) he decided he liked some bloodworms.  
 

 

Just tidying up some of my loose end journals and finishing up details here and there. This lone survivor did well! He made it to 9 months before he was involved with a very unfortunate accident during one of our new system builds. But nonetheless he made it well passed 60dph. So, he is still my ticket to a novice breeder status, but I've been a horrible journal submitter so I'm finally getting around to updating this journal and submitting it. lol.