4 Sets of Breeding Clowns for Sale

I have the following Pairs for Sale
 
Frenatus (Tomato) Clowns (Female Blue Stripe) $150

 
Red Sea Bicinctus (female misbar) $225 (Bad dark photo)

 
Ocellaris $200

 
Ocellaris Misbar Male/Percula Female $200

 
 
I am in Bloomington IN (45 minutes south of Indy)
 
Thank you,
 
Justin
 
 

I  might be interested in your Ocellaris Misbar Male/Percula Female. got to talk to the hubby tonight and see if I can wing him into another pair... are they pretty regular spawners for you? How do their babies look?

They spawned regularly, but the fish were never in a cultivation system until now. They spent the last several years in a large retail setting. I purchased them and about 5 other pairs in an effort to breed them but life happens and I am selling them. I am going to focus on finding and retailing the breeding pairs and not breeding them. My life is not conducive to raising babies at this point. They are close to another spawn, I moved them a few weeks ago and figured they were done for a while, but they are both doing the pot cleaning and she is getting "large". (I won't tell her that). They are super friendly, eat from my hand, and are not shy!
 
Justin

Ok, let me talk it over with him first when he gets home later tonight. Also, are you willing to ship if I pay shipping cost as well... (maybe via paypal?) I don't know how much it costs, but let me know if your willing to look into it. That's a bit of a drive for me (I've got little kiddo's to pacify too! lol) 

I can ship, not my favorite thing to do. Adds a bunch of stress and risk. You cover freight and risk, I'll ship. Priority overnight is going to run 30-50 bucks at least.

Ok, good to know, I will see if i have a buddy going that way before I mess with shipping. My husband and I both hate dealing with shipping as well...  Thanks for getting back with me so promptly, let me get permission to get these two first! lol... (getting ahead of myself here!) 

No worries, I realize it is a long trip.

What's the story on the Melanopus pair - looks more like Frenatus to me?

ah...stink....well he said nope... well, if your ever coming over this way (Iowa) let me know, and he might reconsider, otherwise.... good luck selling them!
 

No, they are Melanopus, she is a blue stripe.
 

What's the background on them...where'd you get 'em?  Are they wild?  Captive Bred?  More info would be helpful.
 
Here's the deal.  Generally speaking, Frenatus has Red Ventral fins with a black leading edge (like yours), whereas Melanopus has black ventral fins.  This trait is even considered a diagnostic for the species in Fishbase (http://fishbase.org/summary/Amphiprion-melanopus.html).  I should further point out that in reviewing all the photos in Fishbase, it includes 3 that are clearly not melanopus, but in fact A. barberi (which is the Red clownfish found in Fiji).  The Tongan ones I actually have sent a query about.  Skimming fishbase there's no point occurrence listed for Frenatus in Tonga...doesn't mean it's not there, or that there's not some confusion about the Tongan fish being melanopus vs. frenatus (or a new species, like A. barberi in Fiji turned out to be).  And we do get fish from Tonga...so maybe that's what you're looking at.  Of course, here's the deal. Looking back at the species description, it may well be that all the fish photos from Tonga are A. barberi as well (it's from Fiji, Tonga and Samoa) - http://academiccommons.columbia.edu/catalog/ac:151991.  So if not A. frenatus, and sold to you as Cinnamons, maybe these are in fact barberi.  But without knowing the answers to my initial question, it's impossible for me to say.
 
I also pulled up my archive of Kylie Waldron's wild clownfish variants and she only shows variants from Vanuatu and Palau with red ventral / pelvic fins, although these populations also show the normal dark black ventral, as well as "Tonga" again coming up this way (But this again would be A. barberi, not A. melanopus).  I'm disregarding all the Red clowns labeled from Fiji in Kylie's work as either Frenatus or Melanopus because, as far as we are away, these are ALL A. barberi, not A. melanopus, A. frenatus, or for that matter, A. rubrocinctus (interestingly, if you follow the paper trail, Fishbase currently notes that all "rubrocinctus" from Fiji, Samoa, Tonga are A. melanopus...we have to go one step further to update that as now they're formally A. barberi..proven by genetic testing).

Anyways, that's why I ask.  Without provenance attached, all the general diagnostics suggests they're Tomato Clowns (A. frenatus) or maybe Barberi Clowns, but not Cinnamons (A. melanopus).  Here's frenatus on Fishbase, just so you have that too - http://fishbase.org/summary/Amphiprion-frenatus.html, and here's A. barberi - http://www.fishbase.us/summary/Amphiprion-barberi.html

in any debate...sweet pic! 

Thanks for the information. The fins are more black than red, the photo does not do it justice. I purchased them from Inland Aquatics, and they were listed as wild caught, and they are 6-8 years old (in their shop that long). They (Inland) have Frenatus and Melanopus, and these were nothing like the Frenatus. The Frenatus I have had that were this big were more orange and did not have the large black saddle or body. But that is not the definitive guide. Here is another pic of the male, they are camera shy. If I'm wrong, I apologize, I was not trying to deceive anyone.
 

 
 

I was reading a bit more, and I am a bit confused on the DB you posted. It says the Black ventral fins are a defining attribute, but the pictures clearly show Melanopus without black ventral fins.
This is the poster child Melanopus they list on the site.
 

 
That fish is "melanopus" from Fiji...which is not melanopus, but in fact is Amphiprion barberi. As I mentioned in my earlier post, MANY of the images on Fishbase are of the wrong species (I actually emailed them to point it out, and as a result I've been told the team is reviewing the entire Amphiprion genus' photographs...I've found similar errors in Synchiropus as well).

Well, I am glad I'm not the only one. I have looked at many "Melanopus" pairs for sale on line and in person over the past few days and all of them appear as mine do. So it appears most of us are clueless on the Frenatus/Melanopus differences.
 
Thanks

Sadly without knowing where they came from, you may never know.  Morgan kinda knows his stuff though, so you should ask him 'bout this pair and see if he can't give you more insight!

I asked, and all of them (his source for Melanopus) were from the Marshall Islands. So what do I list them as? That is the question.

Well....I did a quick google search for melanopus marshall islands...and found this photo shot in the Marshall Islands by none other than Dustin Dorton (President of ORA) - http://www.dustindorton.com/diving/marshalls/wauday1/pages/melanopus.htm - very clearly a fish with black ventrals.  
 
More digging showed more fish in Marshall Islands cited as melanopus:
http://www.dijitalimaj.com/alamyDetail.aspx?img=%7BABAB2194-B843-4D04-A467-6BAFBE8EE0D7%7D
http://fishbase.sinica.edu.tw/photos/thumbnailssummary.php?ID=4654 - note the photos from Marshall Islands...all have black pelvic fins.
 
So this leads me to two ideas.  #1. If these fish are from the Marshall Islands, they'd have to be Frenatus, if Frenatus is in fact found sympatrically with Melanopus in the Marshall Islands.  Melanopus photos from the Marshall Islands show classic black ventrals, which are one of the known indicators of the species.  
 
That said, as one reference puts it, geography is the best way to distinguish Frenatus from Melanopus...which implies that they're not generally found coexisting in the same geographical regions. I cannot confirm that frenatus doesn't exist in the Marshalls, but indicators suggest that it shouldn't, because Melanopus is there.  To me, that more likely means that #2. regardless of what species it is, it's not likely that it's from the Marshall Islands (since it would appear that the tomato-complex species found in the Marshall Islands is in fact A. melanopus, and clearly distinguishable as such)...and as such, I'd think it's a tomato (Frenatus) of unknown provenance.
 
Some additional possibilities - they may have been Tomato clownfish (A. frenatus) that were shipped out of the Marshall Islands, but did not ORIGINATE (aka. were not collected) in the Marshall Islands.  Another possibility, they may be frenatus/melanopus hybrids...although if you know these were wild that's not a likely scenario.
 
I gotta convey that for a LONG time, I myself didn't know the difference between Melanopus and Frenatus...I certainly didn't really know when I was 16 or 18 years old an working retail back in the early 90's.  I have a feeling it was a similar scenario to the way that "Sebae" was (and still is) a label applied to both true sebae and dark forms of Clarkii, or the way that Ocellaris and Percula still get confused.  I'm still learning that discerning species often requires some very subtle cues (my latest revelation was how to discern Betta splendens, imbellis, mahachaiensis, smaragdina, and smaragdina "Guitar"...a matter of tiny dots and stripes, facial pattern differences, and not much else at times).

I will add this - it's categorically safe to say that the darkness of the body is the one thing that ISN'T diagnostic, and is highly variable, particular in A. frenatus.  Seems to typically be that males and young fish are more likely to retain the clean red flanks, while females and older fish darken up. 
 
 

Thank you for such a detailed answer. I do appreciate the information. I will change the listing to Frenatus. Thank you so much.
 

The Percula/Ocellaris pair Spawned today (6/13) at 4pm. Small clutch, but they are still working on it. Here are pictures

 

 

 
 

NICE!
 

Today the Bicinctus (Red Sea) spawned (6-17-2013). If you are interested, this is the best way I know how to prove they spawn.
 

 
 

Misbar Oce/Perc pair sold. The Tomato, Bicinctus, and Ocellaris are available