Help with Pipefish ID....Please :)

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shannpeach
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Help with Pipefish ID....Please :) - Monday, September 9, 2013 10:35 AM
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So I picked up some pipefish this weekend at an area fragswap.  I saw they had two males that were carrying eggs (which I purchased) and then I also just had them pick two others (without eggs...hopefully at least one is a female).  All I know right now is that they were collected around Florida, but where exactly I am not sure yet (I hope to email the guy/company I purchased them from to see if he can give me anything a bit more specific).  They are roughly 6 inches, maybe a little less.  I haven't been able to get the best pictures yet, but I will post what I have.  Right now at the top of the possible ID list is Syngnathus scovelli (perhaps FishTal could help verify since he has raised these before?) Other possibilities include S. louisianae and S. floridae...
 
On to the pics!
The two carrying eggs:


Notice how one is light and one is dark...However, I feel like these colors have changed slightly since they've become a bit more settled in their tank.
The two non-egg carrying pipes:

A kind of blurry pic (sorry, but the acclimation container I had them in wasn't crystal clear--just a water pitcher--so it was hard to get the phone camera to focus)

 
In the tank:

Loving the pretend sea grass:




 
After watching and looking at them, I think I may actually have three males..but time will tell.  So, if anyone has any input (even if it's "well, they definitely AREN'T such and such species), it would be appreciated. I am going to cruise around EOL.org a bit and see if that helps and tonight I am going to try to get some better pictures.  I didn't want to freak them out too much their first couple days.
 
And guess what the funnest part is?? BABIES hatched the first night!

 
So cute! 

waldend
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Re:Help with Pipefish ID....Please :) - Monday, September 9, 2013 11:31 AM
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I am sure the Pipefish King will chime in here shortly.

Oh Jim, where are you?!

JimWelsh
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Re:Help with Pipefish ID....Please :) - Monday, September 9, 2013 11:56 AM
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Difficult to tell from the pictures, but almost certainly in the genus Syngnathus, and they most likely are Syngnathus scovelli.  Tal has raised these before:  Tal, what do you think?

shannpeach
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Re:Help with Pipefish ID....Please :) - Monday, September 9, 2013 12:14 PM
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I've looked at Tal's thread, and some pics look like what I have, and some not so much.  I am not familiar enough with any of the possible species to say if the differences can be chalked up to individual differences in markings/color within the species, or if they are a different species altogether.  His were also only ~3" and mine are definitely larger than that (5-6" I would say, although maybe I will measure them tonight to be certain).  I am not sure what the max size ended up being with his, but I have read that S. scovelli maxes out at 6".

Fishtal
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Re:Help with Pipefish ID....Please :) - Monday, September 9, 2013 1:18 PM
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Quote Originally Posted by JimWelsh


Difficult to tell from the pictures, but almost certainly in the genus Syngnathus, and they most likely are Syngnathus scovelli.  Tal has raised these before:  Tal, what do you think?

I would agree. Do they both have long snouts? Hard to tell in the pics.
http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

shannpeach
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Re:Help with Pipefish ID....Please :) - Monday, September 9, 2013 1:25 PM
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Define "long" lol.  I think a website I saw today actually had measurements for snout length...I will try to find it again.
 
It would be hard to say if the snout is long or short if they all have similar length snouts and I don't have anything else to compare them to (Do you get what I mean?).  I will try really hard to get some better pictures tonight, but just from the pics I already have, the snouts don't look very long to me. 

shannpeach
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Re:Help with Pipefish ID....Please :) - Monday, September 9, 2013 1:54 PM
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Okay, so looking at snout length to at least lean towards S. scovelli vs S. louisianae, I think the snout is too short to be S. louisianae and looks more like S. scovelli to me.  
 
Here are some of the pics I am using for comparison:
S.scovelli (the close up of the snout):
http://www.sms.si.edu/irl...ath_Scovel2W.jpg 

 
S. louisianae (and also S. fuscus)
http://gallery.nanfa.org/v/members/Nate+Tessler/nativenorthamericanfreshwaterfish/Syngnathidae/Syngnathus/

And then some of mine closeup on the snout
 
 
I know my pics are blurry, but I really think just going off the snout right now that they are more likely S. scovelli.  I will say, it would be ideal to have a top down view of S. louisianae for comparison, but I couldn't find any

luis a m
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Re:Help with Pipefish ID....Please :) - Monday, September 9, 2013 1:55 PM
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Is the ruler in the pic inches or cm?

shannpeach
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Re:Help with Pipefish ID....Please :) - Monday, September 9, 2013 2:38 PM
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It's in centimeters. Just a secchi disk stick from Florida Aqua Farms. I like to use it for those sorts of pics because it is white, in centimeters/millimeters, and flat (so I can rest a clear cup on top of it without the cup being wobbly)

luis a m
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Re:Help with Pipefish ID....Please :) - Monday, September 9, 2013 3:16 PM
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Oh yes,I have one of them myself
So they are about 1.4 cm?.I had some hatching years ago and they were close to 2cm.They feed on bbs and are easy to raise

shannpeach
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Re:Help with Pipefish ID....Please :) - Monday, September 9, 2013 3:21 PM
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I estimated them to be ~1.5 cm, but it's hard to say because it wasn't completely stretched out.
 
Yesterday they were eating apocyclops and/or rotifers since I had those ready.  This morning when I added nhbbs they didn't seem terribly interested, but that just could be because it's a new prey item.  
 
Do you think they are S. scovelli then, Luis?  The biggest fry I caught doesn't come close to being 2 centimeters...that seems HUGE! Do you have a thread or something somewhere about them that I could track down?

luis a m
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Re:Help with Pipefish ID....Please :) - Monday, September 9, 2013 4:01 PM
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No Shannon,no links.My experience with them was many years before PCs were developed!
I got them thru a FL based mail order company selling H.zosterae.And I have found what appears like the same species in Sargassum rafts in the beach.

shannpeach
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Re:Help with Pipefish ID....Please :) - Tuesday, September 10, 2013 9:30 AM
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Well, I spent most of yesterday evening working on tank maintenance and doing some water changes, so I wasn't able to spend as much time taking pics as I had hoped.  I really only got one more picture and it isn't that much better than the previous ones:

 
This one was very active in chasing down bbs and spent most of its time at the front of the tank.  I hope to get pictures of each individual soon.  I think S. lousianae has pretty much been ruled out, but Tami said it could be S. fuscus, although she thinks it's more likely to be S. scovelli.  I will poke around for more S. fuscus info/pics.
 
Luis...I feel like you have worked with pretty much everything at some point!