Breeding Journal, Species: Dascyllus aruanus, Three Stripe Damselfish

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KathyL
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Re: Breeding Journal, Species: Dascyllus aruanus, Three Stripe Damselfish - Monday, May 12, 2014 10:49 PM
On Saturday, they were looking like they could hatch, so I set up another kreisel, this time with rotifers instead of Parvo, live Iso, and air, of course.  The Parvo kreisel is stll going strong, and has tons of pods in there.  I've been thinning them, but there still is a LOT.  I scraped some damsel eggs and added some to each kreisel.  I added more than last time, just to give me more chances at success, but not so many that failure would be guaranteed.  Overnight, they didn't hatch. The Damsel's wall was still covered in eggs. Later that day, just before lights out, I noticed that the damsel's wall was mostly devoid of eggs and the 2 kreisels had tiny transparent larvae swirling in them. Did they hatch early evening, or mid day? Don't know. Damn things are so unpredictable...
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KathyL
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Re: Breeding Journal, Species: Dascyllus aruanus, Three Stripe Damselfish - Monday, May 12, 2014 10:56 PM
Now Monday, not 24 hours from hatch, the Parvo kreisel larvae seem to be tossed by the circular current, whereas, in the rotifer kreisel, many larvae hover in a cloud, mostly striking at what comes at them in the current.  Their eyes are not yet pigmented.  Can they see? Or is this just some reflexive swimming motion?
 
This is not a controlled experiment, as the Parvo kreisel has been running for 3 weeks, and the rotifer one, 3 days. The rotifer one has clean new aged saltwater, whereas the Parvo one has all the detritus of many dead larvae, and probably generations of Parvo.  There have only been minimal water changes.
 
Let's see what tomorrow will bring.
 
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KathyL
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Re: Breeding Journal, Species: Dascyllus aruanus, Three Stripe Damselfish - Saturday, May 17, 2014 11:39 AM
As of yesterday, neither kreisel had living damsel larvae in them.  More eggs were laid on Thursday, so there will be  a hatch today.  I'm going to break out the tubs.  I think the kreisels have too much light, and are too small. 
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shannpeach
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Re: Breeding Journal, Species: Dascyllus aruanus, Three Stripe Damselfish - Wednesday, May 28, 2014 5:44 PM
Have you tried these in a BRT yet?

KathyL
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Re: Breeding Journal, Species: Dascyllus aruanus, Three Stripe Damselfish - Thursday, May 29, 2014 9:20 AM
I'm on my second hatch with the BRT. The first time, the eggs hatched wonderfully, lavae swam around abundant Parvocalanus crassirostris nauplii, then died as soon as their yolk sacs depleted.
I'm trying again with the Parvocalanus in the BRT,and have sent an email to Andy Rhyne, who has lots of experience with damselfish and Parvo, to ask for advice.
 
The timing of all the deaths I've experienced with this species suggests that the eating mechanism is just not working right.
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KathyL
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Re: Breeding Journal, Species: Dascyllus aruanus, Three Stripe Damselfish - Wednesday, June 11, 2014 6:57 PM
I've been giving it a go, every 6 days or so, when the damsel larvae are ready to hatch, I scrape some off and put them in the parvo tub. They hatch beautifully, and spend a couple of days swimming there, and then they all die off by the time the damsels spawn again.
 
Mr Damsel used to hide when I went in for the eggs, but now he attacks the siphon tubing with a vengeance. He hasn't gone after my hand yet, but it probably won't be long.  This time I sectioned him and his mate on one side of the tank with some perforated PVC sheet goods, and scraped the eggs with an algae scraper, collecting the eggs with the siphon. I got a fair amount of eggs, but not a lot, as I went in late to get them, and some , most, had already hatched.  Threw those eggs in the parvo BRT, and a couple of hours later, I had tiny swimmers, as usual.
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KathyL
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Re: Breeding Journal, Species: Dascyllus aruanus, Three Stripe Damselfish - Wednesday, June 11, 2014 7:04 PM
This time, they seem more vigorous, three days later, and I have high hopes.  Differences this time, are that I moved the light higher, and I'm using more Isochrysis, and I've added Cheato phytoplankton as well.
 
I'm wondering what the role of pigmentation is, in eye development. When I try to collect the newly hatched pro larvae, they swim away from the approaching pipet tip. Can they see it, or are they in tune with the currents made by it? Pigmentation comes in later.  Is it required for actual sight? Does it protect the eyes from too much light? Does intense lighting bring it on? One would think that in the ocean, the surface water would be intensely lit.  Do they head for the surface like clownfish? or do they hang around wherever they hatch?  I have not tested for photo dynamics...
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KathyL
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Re: Breeding Journal, Species: Dascyllus aruanus, Three Stripe Damselfish - Sunday, June 29, 2014 10:17 AM
With the next to last hatch, I set up 5 systems. Three 17 gallon BRTs and two 3 gallon fishbowl kreisels.  Rotifers with what looked like O. marina, Rotifers "alone", and Parvocalanus crassirostris in each of the BRTs.  Ciliates and some kind of microscopic worm in each of the kreisels.
 
I scraped eggs off the wall of the tank, and added approximately 20 to each of the small kreisels, and tried to evenly divide the rest of the eggs between the BRTs.  Hatching happened, as usual, with no further assistance from me.
 
One obvious flaw in the design of this trial, is that I started late in the day preparing the vessels, so the temperature of the water when I added the eggs was cool, about 73F. Heaters had been added, but the temperature was not what i intended to raise the larvae by. The temperatures eventually rose to 78-79F.
 
In the kreisels, the larvae remained suspended in the circular flow, head down, until starvation day 3.  They occasionally darted, but mostly drifted. The rotifers with O. marina BRT did not hatch as well as the others, which could be due to sloppy stocking density on my part. The larvae also died on day 3. The Parvo BRT, which has been set up for a couple of months, receiving occasional water changes, and which last hosted a precious few larvae that lasted until day 5, this time lost them all at day 3, despite ample stocking density of larvae. The best culture was the rotifers, surprisingly, as they are supposed to be too large for the developing larvae, yet the ones that died on day 5.5 seemed to have something green in their guts.  Post mortem analysis of the culture water food levels revealed that this BRT had those O. marina like critters as well.
 
One other difference in what i did that time, is I had a culture of Cheato phytoplankton, a diatom.  I fed this to all the tanks along with live Iso, until the Cheato crashed last week. The rotifer tanks also got some of Reed's Greenwater product, to supplement the microalgae for the rotifers, as they seem to consume more than the copepods. 
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KathyL
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Re: Breeding Journal, Species: Dascyllus aruanus, Three Stripe Damselfish - Sunday, June 29, 2014 12:32 PM
The parental damselfish continue to be the easiest fish to spawn in the world. I put a white wall tile in the tank after the previous hatch, and they spawned on it the next chance they got. They fight the grabber device I used to retrieve that tile, but it was easier to do than scraping off the wall, and may be easier on the eggs.
 
This time I put the tile in the BRT that hosted the most successful run from last time, and with no particular interventions to get the water to flow over the eggs, other than the airstone providing circular flow to the whole tank, distant to the tile, all the eggs hatched, and there are an abundant number of tiny swimmers in the tank an hour after lights out. Easy peasy. Then I turned on, and left on, the light at the ceiling above their tank, for 24/7 illumination.
 
(Before adding the tile, I did scrape the bottom, swirl the water, allow time for settlement, and siphoned out the crud.  I then searched the siphonate for damselfish bodies and observed several under the scope with pigmented eyes, protruding lower jaws, and something green in the guts. Perhaps they ate something, and it is almost certain that they did, since they lived to day5, and starvation is at day 3 with no eating. )

 
The new larval culture is also with a larger volume, closer to 10 gallons than 5.  I thought since I would be adding more larvae, more volume was warranted.  Also, I effectively did a water change on the tub simultaneously.  I guess, a water supplement.
<message edited by KathyL on Tuesday, July 1, 2014 9:20 AM>
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KathyL
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Re: Breeding Journal, Species: Dascyllus aruanus, Three Stripe Damselfish - Monday, June 30, 2014 12:17 AM
I took some pix under the celestron scope, of a couple of sacrificial larvae to see what they are doing.  Then I added some parvocalanus nauplii to the tank, getting ready for the development of mouths.  The yolk sac is almost spent, and the eyes are getting some pigment. 
 
What can be the advantage of hatching without pigmented eyes and a fully formed mouth?  It's not like they learn to swim better without these things being fully functional...
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Re: Breeding Journal, Species: Dascyllus aruanus, Three Stripe Damselfish - Monday, June 30, 2014 11:53 AM
Today, I moved the light down from the ceiling to the edge of the BRT. The larvae are not just drifting, they are drifting and scooting around, hopefully getting fed.  I did this after taking a sample of the larvae and finding that the eyes now have pigment.
Here are yesterday's pictures, followed by today's:
Day 1:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
    All pix are at taken at 100x with the celestron.
<message edited by KathyL on Monday, June 30, 2014 12:16 PM>
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KathyL
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Re: Breeding Journal, Species: Dascyllus aruanus, Three Stripe Damselfish - Monday, June 30, 2014 11:57 AM
Day 2, today:

 

 

 

 

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KathyL
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Re: Breeding Journal, Species: Dascyllus aruanus, Three Stripe Damselfish - Monday, June 30, 2014 9:15 PM
We have a mouth!

and a gut: 
 
 

 

 
and another:

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KathyL
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Re: Breeding Journal, Species: Dascyllus aruanus, Three Stripe Damselfish - Monday, June 30, 2014 9:19 PM
Can anyone tell if he was eating, and if so, what?
 
Since moving the light down, the larvae are significantly more active.  Instead of drifting, they seem to be darting around, which makes me think they are eating, both by their activity, and the fact that the yolk sac is seriously gone by now. There are a lot of them, which is making sacrificing them for pictures easier to do. This is a significant difference from previous batches. I have hope that we could make it past 5 days...
 
I fed the tank about 100 ml of my darkest ISO, which is not terribly dark, and 20 drops of RG green.
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KathyL
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Re: Breeding Journal, Species: Dascyllus aruanus, Three Stripe Damselfish - Tuesday, July 1, 2014 9:23 AM
Meanwhile Mr and Mrs Strom (I named the parental damsels) are spawning this morning on a new, larger, clay tile I put in their tank a couple of days ago. It's another huge nest of the tinniest eggs you can imagine.  I can't tell they are there until I pull the tile out of the water.  The nest covers approximately 6x6 inches of tile.
<message edited by KathyL on Tuesday, July 1, 2014 9:40 AM>
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Re: Breeding Journal, Species: Dascyllus aruanus, Three Stripe Damselfish - Wednesday, July 2, 2014 11:20 PM
And this evening they are mostly gone.  If there are any left tomorrow morning I'll be surprised. Sigh.
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Re: Breeding Journal, Species: Dascyllus aruanus, Three Stripe Damselfish - Thursday, July 3, 2014 1:26 AM
Keep working on it, Kathy. You'll get it soon.
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Re: Breeding Journal, Species: Dascyllus aruanus, Three Stripe Damselfish - Thursday, July 3, 2014 10:04 AM
No surprise, all dead. :-(
 
Hatch again tonight.
 
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Re: Breeding Journal, Species: Dascyllus aruanus, Three Stripe Damselfish - Monday, July 7, 2014 9:46 AM
This time I put the tile into a chlorinated/dechlorinated BRT of saltwater with heater and airstone, light at the ceiling.  Thousands hatched out. I added about 200 ml Isochrysis, and some 12 drops of RGreen. The next day I started adding P. crassirostris nauplii, and I've been adding the same daily. The second day I began to lower the light, and by the time they had pigmented eyes, the light was attached by the clamp to the tub.  Yesterday, I checked some of the few survivors, and they have pigmented eyes, a mouth and a gut the same color as the brown copepods. (the pictures above were euthanized with iodine, which turns everything brown. I did not euthanize when I checked under the scope this time, and so it is very difficult to take pictures because they do not stay still)
There were very few survivors, but my copepod nauplii supply was not what I would want to feed this many larvae.  Checking under the scope, the nauplii seem still too big for the mouths of the larvae, so the brown guts may be due to ingested algae…I don't know.
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Re: Breeding Journal, Species: Dascyllus aruanus, Three Stripe Damselfish - Monday, July 7, 2014 9:51 AM
Meanwhile, yesterday Mr and Mrs spawned on the large tile as well as another smaller tile in the tank, both sides. Where do they keep these things? This pair is so massively productive it is scary.
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Re: Breeding Journal, Species: Dascyllus aruanus, Three Stripe Damselfish - Monday, July 7, 2014 1:04 PM
Forgive me if this is a question that's been addressed, but have you looked for any papers detailing the past success of culturing other Dascyllus damsels?

KathyL
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Re: Breeding Journal, Species: Dascyllus aruanus, Three Stripe Damselfish - Monday, July 7, 2014 4:54 PM
Yes there is one from India, and they have pictures of the juveniles, but I have been unable to repeat their success.
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Re: Breeding Journal, Species: Dascyllus aruanus, Three Stripe Damselfish - Monday, July 7, 2014 8:51 PM
IT's time for them to die again.  This time there are at least two in there swimming.  I captured one this evening, and he is transparent except for the eyes and the very brown guts.  In the past, when I've attempted these guys with abundant Parvo, it has been Parvo of all sizes.  This time, I'm adding nauplii each day, so there should be nauplii to munch all the time.  In the past, with Parvo, they have all died by day 3, and this is day 5 with Parvo nauplii, and I still have at least 2, so that's something.
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Re: Breeding Journal, Species: Dascyllus aruanus, Three Stripe Damselfish - Wednesday, July 9, 2014 12:03 PM
I was ready to drain the tub for the July 3 hatch, when I noticed a bright eyeball swimming.  I think I have at least one survivor at 6 days! I witnessed this several times this morning. This is a breakthrough for me. More P. crassirostris nauplii and live Iso added this morning. We live to hope.
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Re: Breeding Journal, Species: Dascyllus aruanus, Three Stripe Damselfish - Wednesday, July 9, 2014 9:48 PM
Its definately a larvae swimming, hunting, and striking, and not an air bubble or a floater, or a large copepod. Yay, day 6! Tomorrow is another day.
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Re: Breeding Journal, Species: Dascyllus aruanus, Three Stripe Damselfish - Thursday, July 10, 2014 9:05 AM
Day 7 morning, and I have at least one swimmer!  Skimmed some bubbles off the surface, and added about 200 ml live Iso.  I checked the copepod population in the BRT, and have a decent amount of day 1 nauplii and some adults, so the naups I added a week ago that did not get eaten, must have reproduced.  I decided not to add more at this time.
 
The larva presents itself as a bright dot, larger slightly than the copepod bright dots, and not being pushed by the flow, but swimming independently of it. If it gets close to the surface, I can detect a hint of a body, but at the turbidity of the BRT, that's all I get for now.  When it dives below the half full level of the BRT, I can't see it at all.  No point in taking pictures.
 
Its motion suggests hunting and striking at prey. I look forward to the possibility that it will grow.
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Re: Breeding Journal, Species: Dascyllus aruanus, Three Stripe Damselfish - Thursday, July 10, 2014 11:40 AM
Go Kathy go!

KathyL
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Re: Breeding Journal, Species: Dascyllus aruanus, Three Stripe Damselfish - Friday, July 11, 2014 10:14 PM
Day 8 evening.  Just spent an hour searching the tub with a flashlight. Mainly frustrated, but I could not look away until…I found it. Still swimming, striking, a definate larva.
 
The tub is now an official Parvo culture. I'm going to have to thin it out.  The pipefish will love it. Unfortunately, during the search, I thought I saw a hydroid, so panacur treatment tomorrow.
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Re: Breeding Journal, Species: Dascyllus aruanus, Three Stripe Damselfish - Sunday, July 13, 2014 5:31 PM
Day 10: I couldn't find hydroids today, so I did not treat with Panacur.
I search for the Damsel larva twice daily.  It's actually getting harder to find.  The copepods glow more brightly under my flashlight, but the Damsel has a glow that is about 3 times the size.  It is very hard to detect the body.  The glowing part is roughly triangular, and I think it is just behind the eyes, which seem black. Today, I gazed upon it for almost a whole minute, and caught glimpses of body/tail, but I can't tell how long it is.  It seems a bit wider than it used to, when viewed from above, which is the only angle from which I can view it.
 
Should I put tonight's hatch in the BRT with it? It might help with the copepod population explosion. And I might get a few more damsels through, or it might crash the whole thing.
 
what to do, what to do...
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Re: Breeding Journal, Species: Dascyllus aruanus, Three Stripe Damselfish - Monday, July 14, 2014 9:09 AM
Didn't take the hatch, it will be better to leave the lone larva to its own devices, and I'm going to MBI next weekend, so I don't need the complications.  I'll just thin the parvocalanus.
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Re: Breeding Journal, Species: Dascyllus aruanus, Three Stripe Damselfish - Tuesday, July 15, 2014 3:12 PM
Yesterday I caught a fleeting glimpse of the tiny larva in the morning, and couldn't find it at all in the evening.  This morning I searched and searched, and was about to give up and go to work, when it appeared amonst the copepods.  Now it has 2 black spots on its body, which I can guess is why it is so hard to find in the BRT. The good news is that it appears to be growing and new pigmentation must be a good sign. Today is Day 12.
 
By the time I go to MBI workshop, I hope to have the copepod population down significantly, and set up a peri-pump to keep the Isochyrsis brown water refreshed.  When I get back it will be Day 18, and meta may not be far away!  I sure hope this puppy grows significantly in the next few days.  Bending over a BRT with a flashlight is a pain in the back….
Anyway, I am excited!
 
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Re: Breeding Journal, Species: Dascyllus aruanus, Three Stripe Damselfish - Tuesday, July 15, 2014 7:04 PM
Congratulations Kathy - hopefully this one will keep going.
 
I am about to get some BRT's set up and was wondering if there was any benefit in fitting a white base to the bottom of the BRT? I was thinking some plastic 'cutting board' material or similar? Would this aid in locating the larvae?

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Re: Breeding Journal, Species: Dascyllus aruanus, Three Stripe Damselfish - Tuesday, July 15, 2014 8:36 PM
This evening (DAY12) I was able to capture the little guy in a plastic cup and get a not great picture of him:

 
Sorry for the quality, but it was the best I could do given that I do'nt want to stress him out taking his picture…  The eyes are dark, and the brain region, and a spot further down.  I don't know what the diagonal projection is, but I guess it will become clear with time and growth.
 
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KathyL
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Re: Breeding Journal, Species: Dascyllus aruanus, Three Stripe Damselfish - Tuesday, July 15, 2014 8:41 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Magicj


Congratulations Kathy - hopefully this one will keep going.

I am about to get some BRT's set up and was wondering if there was any benefit in fitting a white base to the bottom of the BRT? I was thinking some plastic 'cutting board' material or similar? Would this aid in locating the larvae?

Thanks Magicj!  About the white bottom, I don't know. I once tried to paint the bottom with Krylon white, but it didn't hold tightly, and eventually, I just scrubbed it off.  I don't think it helped with visualization even when it was intact.
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Re: Breeding Journal, Species: Dascyllus aruanus, Three Stripe Damselfish - Wednesday, July 16, 2014 10:28 PM
OK, Is this metamorphosis?  Looks like a fish to me!

 

 

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Fishtal
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Re: Breeding Journal, Species: Dascyllus aruanus, Three Stripe Damselfish - Wednesday, July 16, 2014 10:32 PM
How is it behaving? Still pelagic, or settling?
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Re: Breeding Journal, Species: Dascyllus aruanus, Three Stripe Damselfish - Wednesday, July 16, 2014 10:38 PM
Good question.  Still swimming around, but even my clownfish didn't go benthic.   I guess I should put a piece of pipe in there...
 
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Re: Breeding Journal, Species: Dascyllus aruanus, Three Stripe Damselfish - Thursday, July 17, 2014 2:03 PM
Looks a little fishy to me! Should be interesting to see the difference when your gone a couple of days for the conference. 

KathyL
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Re: Breeding Journal, Species: Dascyllus aruanus, Three Stripe Damselfish - Thursday, July 17, 2014 7:36 PM
It still has a lot of transparent parts.  I'll wait to see what happens before calling it meta...
 
One thing is for sure.  BRTs are great for growing lots of copepods. I've been pulling out 2-3 gallons of the 10 gallon culture each day, and it hardly looks different.  Thick, it is.
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Re: Breeding Journal, Species: Dascyllus aruanus, Three Stripe Damselfish - Monday, July 21, 2014 11:25 AM
after MBIW 2014 I can't find the little guy. .. bummer.
check out Kathy's Clowns, llc website:
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