Breeding Journal, Species: [Orchid dottyback, P. fridmani]

General
Species:  Pseudochromis fridmani
Social Structure:  pair
Size of Individuals:  Male >3" Female 2.5"
Age of Individuals:  Reportedly 2yrs from previous owner
Date added to Tank:  March 6, 2015

Broodstock Tank Details
Size of Tank:  37gal column
Substrate Details:  crushed coral
Filtration Details:  reef octopus skimmer
Water Changes:  weekly 20%
Water Temperature:  80*F
Lighting:  AI Nano
Lighting Cycle:  14 on 10  off
Other Tank Inhabitants:  Pair clownfish, pair banggai cardinal, single yasha goby/candycane pistol

Broodstock Feeding Details
Food Types:  rods, mysis, reef caviar, frozen mash, cyclops, tigriopus
Feeding Schedule:  whenever I walk by

Spawning Details
Date of First Spawn:  March 18
Spawn Time of Day:  unknown
Dates of Consecutive Spawns:  March 18, March 24, April 6, April, 14, April 20, April 26
Courtship Details:  Ignore each other until day before spawning, male lures her into his cave, she goes in around sunrise for 2hrs then leaves
Egg Size:  unknown
Egg Color:  whitish at first
Egg Count:  roughly a 3/4" ball

Hatch Details
Hatch Date:  April 26 nest hatched April 29 
Hatch Time of Day:  2 hours post lights out
# Days after Spawn:  4
Larvae Description:                 same length as clown larvae but thinner, look like glass splinters, some yolk left at hatching
Consecutive Hatch Dates:     


Larval Tank Details
Temperature:  80*F
Size of Larval Tank:  2gal bowl
Substrate Details:  bare
Other Tank Decor:  none
Filtration Details:  none
Lighting:  ambient
Lighting Cycle:  14 on 10 off
Water Changes:  as needed, vacuum bottom

Larval Feeding Details
Food Types:  rotifers, RGComplete and Iso to tint
Feeding Schedule:  continuous

Metamorphosis/Settlement
Date of Settlement Start: 
Days after Hatch: 
Date of Settlement End: 
Description of Fry: 

Grow-Out Tank Details
Temperature: 
Size of Grow-Out Tank: 
Substrate Details: 
Other Tank Decor: 
Filtration Details: 
Lighting: 
Lighting Cycle: 
Water Changes: 
Size at Transfer: 
Age at Transfer: 

Grow-Out Feeding Details
Food Types: 
Feeding Schedule: 

Additional Information

(No Pictures or Videos in the Section Please)
Miscellaneous Information: 



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First collected nest was laid 4/26 and hatched 4/29. Only two hatched. I felt good about collecting the ball on the 29th and they looked good until I got home mid day on the 30th. I do not think I tumbled them enough while I was at work. I played it safe and under-aerated and I think I lost the rest of the ball except these two larvae.
 
They look strong today (4/30) swimming strongly, very reactive to light. We shall see.  

Scratch that bad hatch from the 30th. Tonight I had a somewhat decent hatch from eggs laid May 2. I pulled the eggs during a water change when the male left his cave.

I tumbled significantly harder and they started to pop right away. Then nothing. Maybe 30-40 hatched then it seemed like the hatching stopped. I dropped a shot glass into the kreisel and guided the remaining mass into it to tumble that way for the night with somewhat rigorous airflow. I'll update in the morning when I tint and add rotifers.

These things are small, you guys sure they'll be able to eat regular rotifers?

Scrapped this hatch too. Today when I checked on them, there were tons laying on the bottom. None appeared to have eaten anything. The ones that were swimming were doing so very weakly and without any purposeful direction.

Should have new eggs tomorrow.

I had the best results when keeping the water very green and lighting 24/7 with rots.
I talked with Witt about this years ago and it was his opinion that unless you're feeding copepods they will need to feed constantly to get enough nutrition from rots. 

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Thanks for chiming in Tal. Rotifer availability definitely wasn't the issue. There were more in there when I scrapped the kreisel than when I first fed. The larvae all looked to have never eaten anything. I didn't put them under a microscope but I couldn't find a single one that appeared to have anything in its gut.

I tinted with Iso and RGComplete and the bowl had more rotifers than when I first added them. Aside from the issues I've had with hatching (which I'm still blaming myself for) it seems like the larvae are just not feeding. I initially fed rotifers to a similar density to what I use for clownfish with great success.

Planning to get some copepods other than my tigriopus going now that I have enough Iso rolling to start harvesting it but from everything I have read, I was under the impression that rotifers would work for the first week or two.

Any input on the apparent lack of feeding? Same rotifers I always used with clownfish but to be honest these larvae look smaller than my percula larvae.

Thanks in advance!

New eggs today. Right on schedule.

Keep at it Joe, you'll get it done.

Jake
We are all in this together

Thanks for the words Jake!

My pleasure Joe, you are working with another of my favorites. Do you have Martin Moe's book on them?  He was a pioneer with them, I really admire his persistence. So much more then what we need now with so much at our virtual fingertips, and this site.

Jake
We are all in this together

I don't have a book by Martin Moe on dotties specifically but I'll look for it.

It's frustrating to have such dumb little issues like poor hatch rates and weak larvae. I'd much rather be having 'real' problems like more larvae than I can feed and challenges like feeding pelagics. Instead I'm here feeling like a noob with fish others seem to raise effortlessly.

You can get his book on Amazon.  He had a number of major die-offs at first, he found that if they didn't have ample food  the morning after hatching that he had high mortality from then on if they started off hungry.
 
He fed mainly rotifers enriched with nanno and V8 juice,  unenriched rotifers didn't cut it. Also he had quite a few copepods in his rotifers too. He also towed plankton  and fed that once a day, some hatches didn't get much plankton. He found some ciliates in his tows and the larvae ate them well.
 
He also noted a while into the runs that the tanks with lights over them the larvae fed best. He didn't have BRTs but ten and 20 gal tanks for growout.  The lights were just 2 bulb fluor. about 12" over the tank.
 
That's about what I could glean quickly. I've had the book quite awhile.
 
Good luck,

Jake
We are all in this together

That's all great info thank you very very much! I will be tinting with Iso from now on and I've made a note about ensuring they have ample food first thing in the morning.

Interestingly, both failed batches thus far weren't fed until mid morning after hatch when culture station lights came on. I will make it a point to add rotifers and Iso the night of the hatch now instead of waiting like I do with clownfish.

Good luck, go for it ! 

Jake
We are all in this together

Ok so I left the eggs with dad and let him hatch them. Wouldn't you know, I had 1000+ larvae on my hands within 2 hours. I didn't collect them all but probably more than half.

Per the above advise, I've already added Iso and rotifers. The vessel won't be lit until first thing in the morning. I'll update tomorrow.

 
Great news !  It took Martin quite a few spawns before he got it down,  good luck with these !

Jake
We are all in this together

As of 7pm I don't see many (any actually but there must be) dead ones at the bottom of the kreisel. The vast majority seem to be swimming with the correct orientation in the water, something that changed around day two on my past failed batches.

Dare I say, it looks like they may even be eating. The water is still barely tinted with Iso, I'll darken it tonight and more than likely get some tetraselmis tomorrow from a friend to use as tint for the next few days while my Iso recovers. If these guys make it past several days and appear to be eating well, I'll likely invest in Parvo naups to supplement.

Yay! Good luck!

check out Kathy's Clowns, llc website:
http://kathysclowns.com
Captive bred clownfish and more
(Wholesale to the trade.)

Great Joe, keep it up. He said later, on the old Breeder Registry Forum that for a great many species once the egg oil was absorbed an empty stomach would kill them.  
 
 

Jake
We are all in this together

Uggghhhhhhh. Lots of disoriented larvae this morning. Rotifer numbers went up not down and the water is still tinted with Iso from last night and no foam at the surface. Very few dead larvae at the bottom but most seem to be on their way out.

Does anyone have any info on prey density? I'm feeding to a similar (eyeballed) density as I do with clownfish. Too much? Same aeration as well. From what I've read this is fine but what about personal experiences?

Any updates Joe?

Jake
We are all in this together

did you get a chance to read Moe's book?

check out Kathy's Clowns, llc website:
http://kathysclowns.com
Captive bred clownfish and more
(Wholesale to the trade.)

As of today, no more larvae but a new batch of eggs right on schedule.

No Kathy, I don't have Moe's book. I've been using Witt's for reference. To be honest I'm not thrilled by this book and as soon as I get my amazon credit I'm going to look for Moe's book.

Until then I'll be experimenting with prey densities because my hunch is that the rotifers may not be eliciting strikes if they are too dense. I base that on nothing really lol because I used the same density I do for clownfish without problems but I have to try something.

If I recall correctly, the dottys need more, not less rotifers, but they may do better on smaller ones.  Three things seemed important to Moe's success: 1. antibiotics, a route I would not recommend in this day, but which worked for him, then, 2. wild plankton tows.  They seem to need a larger and perhaps more nutritious prey than common rotifers, at a later time point, and 3. sufficient light. His did best with the fluorescent bulb mounted right over the tank.
 
It's been a while since I read the book, and it is fascinating, thought it takes a while to get to the key points, so read it leisurely, and enjoy.  There is a lot more to learn than just techniques.  Moe is a treasure.  Is he coming to MBI this year?

check out Kathy's Clowns, llc website:
http://kathysclowns.com
Captive bred clownfish and more
(Wholesale to the trade.)

I don't know of he's going to MBI but I'm almost certain he's speaking at MACNA in DC.

I'm going to try lighting them a bit differently next time, maybe a little more directly instead of ambient culture station lighting like I was. It's bright there, bright enough for clownfish larvae but I will move things around to have the larvae directly under the light.

MM had a fluor. close to the tank, but everything in the room was close, it was an unfinished bath room.

Jake
We are all in this together

Lol my culture station which is also where I raise larvae is a 30" wide and 26" deep closet. I reinforced all the shelves to hold more weight and put t8 fixtures under each shelf. Rotifers are on the floor under the bottom shelf. It's pretty tight in there but I make it work. I can't wait to have a garage.

Big hatch not collected tonight because I'm leaving town for almost two weeks in a couple of days. I've got a friend to feed everyone and do a water change but I can't ask him to do rotifer and phyto maintenance let alone larval care...

I'll update once I'm back and get things back on track with them.

Joe have a good trip.
 
 When you get back something to consider is that Martin wrote that the best survival was when he had good tows of Plankton. Its quite possible that  this introduced smaller prey then rotifers, look into copepods and  ciliates along with the rotifers. And also look at S strain rotifers.
 
Good luck.

Jake
We are all in this together

Parvocalanus is going to be part of the equation in the near future. I'm working on getting a good protocol down for my Iso cultures so I constantly toy have a little bit of dense culture going. So far so good but I'm not going to order the parvo until I'm back in town.

I'm also filling a new tank tomorrow morning for seahorses, mandarins and pipes. This project was the real reason I got the Iso started. I didn't think I'd need it for the pseudochromis but I'll have it soon enough anyway for my mandarin and Doryrhamphus larvae. I have some broodstock coming out of quarantine when I'm back from my trip so I'll hopefully have a few new threads to be updating here as well.

Collected a hatch tonight. Not a good one though, I got home late and missed a fair portion of them. It's also contaminated...with like 3 clownfish larvae. Gross lol

I've been chatting with a friend a few hours away working with these and he's having great results feeding rotifers. So here it goes again, maybe better luck with slightly less dense larvae numbers.