The pursuit of Tigerpyge

I am sure there are several people out there who may have Centropyge eibli and Centropyge flavissima in the same tank with fingers crossed that they will spawn. Here's a question I have: 
  

 
 
 
Considering 'close' to optimal conditions (water quality, nutrition, aquarium size, etc). Would the probability of these fish spawning increase whether the brood stock came from the same geographic location or not? 
  
For example: If I paired a Centropyge eibli male from the Indo Pacific with a Centropyge flavissima  female from Fiji, would the chances of them spawning successfully be just as probable as pairing a Centropyge eibli  male from Indo Pacific and a Centropyge flavissima  female (blue eyed) from Cocos island or would it even matter?
 
In the wild, Tigerpyge are collected typically in and around Java and Bali where Centropyge flavissima are rare. 
  
Just curious what you guys think.

That's a good question for an icthiologist (not sure if I'm spelling that right).  In the fish hobbyist world, a fellow Virginian named John Coppolino knows quite a lot about angels.  He contributes on reef central.  Also John Fenner knows a lot, but I don't know how to get hold of him.  On this forum, Matt Pedersen has written some very good angelfish articles.
 
 

I guess the same could be asked of Centropyge multifasciatus x Centropyge venustus
 



 

This would certainly make for a good discussion at the MBI Workshop in July.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

I wish I could make it to this workshop. I have so many questions lol

I guess in order to dig into this question a little deeper, I could ask:
 
Are there certain genetic traits that would stimulate a pair to spawn if they were collected from the same geographic location?
 
I am aware that there has been some hybridization among pygmy angels from two totally different oceans (Atlantic and Pacific) due to human intervention. With that said, obviously the question above sort of gets squashed somewhat but it's just something I think about 

I think a bigger factor then others is the proximity of the potential breeders to each other. If they have been together since juveniles, and others of the species are not available then breeding is much more possible, and probable, all other factors being supportive.
 
Acculturation is a powerfull  factor.

Jake
We are all in this together

I have a pair that have been added together in my 90 gallon. They have bonded quite well. There was a little fighting at first but now they share the same rock ledge. One will go out to feed, the other hangs out under the ledge and vice versa. This is where they go when lights go out. The C. Eibli angel (3") is about 1/4" larger than the C. Flavissima (2-3/4"). I plan on adding them to my 300 gallon in the coming weeks. The C. Eibli is from Indonesia and the C. Flavissima is from Fiji. 
 
I just wanted to share. 
 
Sorry for the picture quality. 
 
 

 

 

 

 

 

That's a nice looking pair of fish.

Thanks. The Eibli is prettier than the pic shows. It's more yellow/orange looking than the picture shows. I will try to post a video tonight.

Beautiful pair ! 
 
How long have they been together?  If theres no other Centropyge in the big tank you could be well on the way

Jake
We are all in this together

Beautiful pair ! 
 
How long have they been together?  If theres no other Centropyge in the big tank you could be well on the way

Jake
We are all in this together

There are no other centropyge in the tank. My 300 gallon has one large bicolor angel that has been there for four years. I will probably relocate him to another tank in order to keep a territorial dispute from erupting. Plus I would like to keep this pair as the only Centropyge fish in the tank.

I think one of the most important considerations to note is that the Indian Ocean Lemonpeel is slightly visually different than the Pacific one.  This might in fact be enough in the future to consider them separate species, although I don't think to date that's been brought up and maybe they'll remain as one - I'd have to go look at some of the past writings by Joe Rowlett and Luiz Rocha to see where that Indian Ocean fish stands genetically.  Regardless of that, the important point to ponder is probably not whether they will be more or less likely to interbreed, but whether the Indian Ocean fish would have a different impact on the hybrid results vs. the Pacific Lemonpeel.  Chances are the difference would be very minimal, but who knows?  NO one does, until someone does a whole bunch of breeding and documents the answers!

So for now, the important part from where I sit would be to simply make sure that you note which form of Lemonpeel you're using. If you want to stay "True to nature", then without a doubt, the Indian Ocean Lemonpeel would be the only choice for broodstock. 

Matt

These are my thoughts exactly. I never see the Indian Ocean variant except only rarely in DD on LiveAquaria. Are there other suppliers that import these fish ever so often?

 
Randall et als report a large number of hybrids compared to the number of species .  Its not rare to occur, which is why I think acculturation is very plausible.  And why we see so many species closely resembling others.  I am thinking that you are well on the way to having a spawning pair, given growth and conditioning continuing. I think the odds are in your favor.
 
I
 
 

Jake
We are all in this together

"IF" this pair spawned and "IF" the fry were successfully raised to adulthood, I wonder if the offspring would possess the blue ring around the eye that is common with Pacific Lemonpeels. 
 
For example:

 
 

Time will tell, once you get the hybrids then you can select for that. You'll only have some hundreds to select among  
 
First things first. Good luck with them !

Jake
We are all in this together

Looking good for a pair!!
 
Real eye candy.

Jake
We are all in this together

Best way to find a pair is to make it yourself Jake!

I agree, that's down the road for me, I am still in the process of setting up tanks, the stand with the sump under it is outside with the sump full, I will drain it today and get it moved inside tomorrow.
 
My 90 wont be in place until the weekend, slowly slowly.
 
All this aside, I still believe that having a 2 species pair of Centropyge depends more on availability of partners and acculturation then most other factors. IF a spawning pair is achieved then the owner is back to the same road as others in raising the offspring.  Actually there might be a certain  increased amount of vigor in the fry from heterosis.
 
All speculation at this point. But, its fun

Jake
We are all in this together