Breeding Period for Banggai

I got my Banggai pair in 2008 at MACNA. They were juveniles that came from ORA. http://www.masm.org/mforums/tm.aspx?m=32534&high=banggai 

 

I'm starting to notice that my male isn't holding to term as much and when he does I'm not getting as many juveniles. I used to get 20+, now I'm lucky to get 4. I read a study that Frank Marini did a while back that charted his results and he noticed a decline after 2 years. Has anyone else noticed this, or have any other information about how long Banggai remain sexually productive in captivity?

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Hmmm Interesting...Maybe that is a good reason to try to maintain a colony of sorts. I wish I had room to setup one of those huge Trop style ponds..

Chad Penney - MBI Council
Agis quod Adis

 

Got a link to the study?

Live and Learn

http://www.reefs.org/library/talklog/f_marini_020799.html

 

Not sure if this link will work: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:yM6PcdwD8VMJ:www.soest.hawaii.edu/seagrant/communication/pdf/Banggai%2520Cardinalfish-Final.pdf+banggai+marini&cd=12&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
 

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Tal,
I have heard reports of a decline after two years from other hobbyists as well.

Recently there was a post here that mentioned a similiar decline indwarf seahorses...The commonality being he male involvement in the process. In both cases there is psyical toll on the male to raise the young which I wonder if over time is a factor in the number of fry that is produced.

Chad Penney - MBI Council
Agis quod Adis

Still pondering this. The male seems healthy and plump. I'm wondering if the female is not producing quality eggs or if indeed it is a male issue.
 
The last time I tried to pair the female with another male she killed him. Should I split them up and attempt to pair them with younger fish? The other alternative is to just get a whole new pair. Hmmm... 

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

Ohh wow. I just acquired two pair of Bangaii from local reefers... I didn't even think to ask their ages. Both pairs are large and look very mature.

Doni Marie~

My first brood on Bangers came from a pair that had been taken out of a lease fish tank by a maintenance company. I guess the pair were something like four years old. I didn't expect any breeding because of Frank's article, but just expected to give them a good retirement home. Sure 'nuff, a bunch of babies, but I lost the female shortly after. That male is still alive and feisty (and look like he would gladly host some eggs, though I don't have a female with him) and he must be pushing 7 by now. Now, maybe they were never fed enough in the maintenance tank to get any regular breeding, so maybe the male wasn't worn down by constantly holding eggs. I don't know. I do know that Frank recommends giving the males some time off every once in a while to rejuvenate.

--Andy, the bucket man.
"Not to know the mandolin is to argue oneself unknown...." --Clara Lanza, 1886

There is a much older pair at my LFS that has produced offspring within the last year. Mine are certainly getting fed enough and they never spawned right away after release. There was always plenty of recovery time in between.
 
Maybe I'm just expecting too much from them, lol.

http://www.fishtalpropagations.com/#!home/mainPage
"Making captive breeding easier."

My males mouth is stuffed right now..I should probably have babies in the next two weeks.
 

Chad Penney - MBI Council
Agis quod Adis

Awesome Chad!

Doni Marie~

Thanks.. I need to get an new photo and update my journal...And get a report submitted! 

Chad Penney - MBI Council
Agis quod Adis

Tal, I also read that paper from Frank.  I would think it is due to the female (just a guess) but if fish are similar to other animals, the number of ovaum are set at the time of ovary development, and once the eggs are used up, that's it.  Not like sperm production that continues throughout the life of the individual.  Frank also talked about double cluching using 2 males with one female.  This theory could be easily tested by pairing older males (with declining numbers of fry per clutch) with young females and see if the number of fry increase (or if it might be declining fertility on the part of the male with more unfertilized eggs as he ages).  Lots of research could be done with this, got some good ideas.  I want to set up a little colony of banggais so I might just look into this further, if I ever get to production.

My hope with mine is the get to the point of having a colony going that I just harvest from every so often. So I'm on the same path.

Chad Penney - MBI Council
Agis quod Adis

Good luck to you Chad.  If we both reach our goals, maybe we can trade off some individuals to get greater genetic diversity going.  It will be fun to work with like minded breeders.