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Re:Adventures with Artificial Incubation for Bangaii Cardinal Eggs
Wednesday, May 23, 2012 8:51 PM
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Dan, Banggai eggs stick together in a mass, they don't tumble individually like whatever eggs those are in the video. So Banggai eggs won't be bouncing off eachother. I'm not sure that anyone knows why Banggai eggs collected so early typically don't survive, otherwise we would already know how to remedy the problem. I'm hoping to figure out what this problem is; this is my goal. I am thinking that the relatively long incubation period is a major hurdle, but what about the length of time is possibly hindering the eggs? I'm not sure. I have a few ideas though. Maybe it is physical injury to the eggs? Bacteria? Prolonged light exposure? Inadequate oxygenation? Maybe the male excretes something in his mouth that contributes to incubation or development?
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Re:Adventures with Artificial Incubation for Bangaii Cardinal Eggs
Wednesday, May 23, 2012 9:04 PM
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I was wondering about light as well...
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Re:Adventures with Artificial Incubation for Bangaii Cardinal Eggs
Thursday, May 24, 2012 8:59 AM
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I didn't realize they stayed attached during the tumbling. I guess I should watch more YouTube videos. Maybe if we can go back and try to pinpoint what the male does during his holding then it will lead us to better survival % of early eggs as well as those pulled later. My banggais only spawned once prior to the male killing the female (during a botched spawn I believe) so I don't have a lot of observation time. My thoughts are the male is moving the eggs inside his mouth and pumping water across them in and out. As Mindy and Tal mentioned above, in darkness. How can we simulate all this? If someone could do some microscopic examination of the eggs in like several hour increments maybe we could see "how" they are failing if you will.
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Re:Adventures with Artificial Incubation for Bangaii Cardinal Eggs
Thursday, May 24, 2012 5:30 PM
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I would be quite happy to do an observation as you describe, though I don't have a good enough microscope.
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Re:Adventures with Artificial Incubation for Bangaii Cardinal Eggs
Thursday, May 24, 2012 9:08 PM
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...all part of my proposed research for Banggai Rescue...if the timing works out I should mentoin, I tried to post a second response but the power flickered and killed it. The african cichlid style tumblers that are air driven with a wider chamber and mesh at top and bottom typically don't work. Since the eggs are one big mass, they're either not tumbled enough, or they get pulled against the top screen. This is why I went to a water driven tumbler and ultimately found success. There's a myriad of ways to accomplish this basic design, although I have to say, seeing it in action, I think a wine glass may be hands down one of the best ways to accomplish it...going to have to look around here more for suitable glassware.
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Re:Adventures with Artificial Incubation for Bangaii Cardinal Eggs
Thursday, May 24, 2012 9:12 PM
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Yeah, I experienced the same thing with the "cichlid style" tumbler...had quite the difficulty getting the eggs to tumble properly, and was more luck if they tumbled ok for long enough for them to hatch (only a few days with that pair). Looking at the wine glass idea, I'm thinking a "tumbler glass" might make a great tumbler. Haha! Essentially a wine glass without the stem so it could be placed into a smaller vessel.
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Re:Adventures with Artificial Incubation for Bangaii Cardinal Eggs
Thursday, June 21, 2012 10:13 PM
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Hmmm....I forgot about that wine glass tumbler idea. I need to try that. I tried using a PhosBan reactor with my Banggai eggs which worked significantly better than the ghetto pop bottle tumbler. It takes a lot of flow through the PhosBan reactor to keep an egg ball tumbling though - a MaxiJet 1200 is barely enough. I collected a spawn about 2 weeks ago, and the eggs lasted 6 days. So there is some progress. I ordered an Aquabreed 200 and an Aqua Lifter Pump from BRS to make a water driven tumbler. I have a feeling once I figure out a good method of tumbling the real challenge will be to keep the water quality acceptable for the extended incubation period of the Banggai Cardinal. I think that will be the tough part. So far, I'm just using methylene blue. UV will probably be the next step.
Don't let fear and common sense stop you! =]
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Re:Adventures with Artificial Incubation for Bangaii Cardinal Eggs
Saturday, July 21, 2012 11:06 PM
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The water tumbler I used, and evenutally hatched s group of PJs in, seemed to work well. I am not sure if I ever posted an update with it in my PJ journal. Basically an very tall (18" or so) vase that I found at walmart for $8 amd I use a maxijet with a valve to pump the water down. The top of the vase is considerably wider than the bottom, so by the time it hits mid vase, there is not enough water pressure to push it up any higher. The eggs bounce between 2/3 and 1/8 hight of the vase, and very gently. just a thought.
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Re:Adventures with Artificial Incubation for Bangaii Cardinal Eggs
Sunday, July 22, 2012 8:20 AM
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That's an idea Eric. I actually split this pair up, put the male in my reef tank, and substituted a young male about a week ago. Time will tell. The female should be ready to spawn soon. They have been very flirty right from day 1 together. I have a second young pair that is only holding just shy of a week so far (holding second spawn right now). I will give him a few tries, and if he isn't getting better with time I will start using his eggs for AI adventures (lol).
<message edited by EasterEggs on Sunday, July 22, 2012 10:22 AM>
Don't let fear and common sense stop you! =]
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