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•  Why are Bangaiis not being commercially raised?

  Change Page: 12 > | Showing page 1 of 2, messages 1 to 20 of 40 - powered by ASPPlayground.NET Forum Trial Version Author Message TheCoralShoppe Total Posts : 158 Scores: 4 Reward points : 191 Joined: 8/27/2011 Location: Parma, OH, US Status: offline Group Account MBI: 125 Pnts MBI Site: Marine Breeding Initiative (MBI) Why are Bangaiis not being commercially raised? Monday, September 26, 2011 11:21 AM (permalink) 0 So as the title say, why are Bangaii's not being raised on a commercial scale? I've done it twice now and they are very easy. I understand the numbers are low, but if you had quite a few suitable pairs regularly holding eggs, i'm sure there wouold be great profit involved? am i missing something here? Mike Meadows Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/thecoralshoppe Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheCoralShoppe?feature=mhee     #1 JimWelsh Total Posts : 1426 Scores: 14 Reward points : 1486 Joined: 1/22/2010 Location: Angwin, CA, US Status: offline MBI: 1845 Pnts MBI Site: Marine Breeding Initiative (MBI) Re:Why are Bangaiis not being commercially raised? Monday, September 26, 2011 11:23 AM (permalink) 0 http://www.seahorse.com/s...bnn749medffs6hlf4ot6h1   <message edited by JimWelsh on Monday, September 26, 2011 1:06 PM>   #2 Caesra Total Posts : 317 Scores: 2 Reward points : 195 Joined: 7/4/2011 Location: Cherry Valley, IL, US Status: offline MBI: 80 Pnts MBI Site: Marine Breeding Initiative (MBI) Re:Why are Bangaiis not being commercially raised? Monday, September 26, 2011 12:59 PM (permalink) 0 They are, but not in the volumes would think.  From my research, the math isn't there.....  Food requirements are much more expensive, you only get a few years out of a pair, and it takes them 2 months to produce a batch, that is relatively small...   #3 jeff@zina.com Total Posts : 49 Scores: 2 Reward points : 96 Joined: 1/2/2011 Location: Naples, FL, US Status: offline MBI: 0 Pnts MBI Site: Marine Aquarium Societies of North America Re:Why are Bangaiis not being commercially raised? Monday, September 26, 2011 1:14 PM (permalink) 0 Probably the biggest reason is there's no current process that fits in with the larger aquaculture operations.  My guess is it would rely on stripping eggs and maximizing production, 3-5 males per female maybe, and a change in the layout and operations of a plant.  Which means it really isn't going to be economically done (no real return value) for some time.  Then, all of a sudden, we'll be flooded with $4 CB Bangaiis...    Possibility:  Pond breeding.   Jeff   #4 CableGuy Total Posts : 591 Scores: 7 Reward points : 731 Joined: 8/26/2010 Location: Saint Clair Shores, MI, US Status: offline MBI: 635 Pnts MBI Site: MarineLife Aquarium Society of Michigan Re:Why are Bangaiis not being commercially raised? Monday, September 26, 2011 2:05 PM (permalink) 0 The way I've heard it and it has kind of touched on here... it doesnt really fit the bill for a active shop with lots of activity. If they are spooked or bothered too much they will eat them or spit them too early. (This is from someone who has experience, so it is second hand from me.) -Adam   #5 mPedersen Total Posts : 3450 Scores: 29 Reward points : 1376 Joined: 2/27/2009 Location: Duluth, MN, US Status: offline MBI: 4975 Pnts MBI Site: Lake Superior Marine Aquarium Club Re:Why are Bangaiis not being commercially raised? Monday, September 26, 2011 3:48 PM (permalink) 5 They are certainly commercially viable, but I think the best explanation is echoed above - they don't work with the standard procedures used to rear other species.  It's much more effective to bring on another high-fecundity substrate spawning species that uses the same rearing protocols vs. doing something drastically different. So if you do one species of clownfish, much easier to add a half dozen more.  I think it was Todd Gardner who mentioned that basic concept at the workshop this year - fish that don't fit the routine are disruptive / difficult to assimilate into an existing hatchery.  On the one hand, I get it.   On the other hand, to those who say they can't be profitable, that's utter nonsense.  Their fecundity, reproductive strategy, difficulty, cost to produce and pricing in the chain of custody is on pair with commonly produced African Cichlid species like the Frontosa (Cyphotilapia frontosa) or the Lemon Yellow Labidochromis (Labidochromis caeruleus) and people who produce THOSE fish wouldn't produce them if they didn't make money.  So in that regard, I look at the "can't make money" argument as a falicy...it's more of "we can't make as much money as we might from a clownfish or something" and in that, there might be some truth.  Still, with CB Banggais retailing at $35-$50 each now, there's plenty of profit for the taking.  Time and again, I've been told by larger producers that they think the Banggai is perhaps the ideal mom & pop breeder fish.       #6 TheCoralShoppe Total Posts : 158 Scores: 4 Reward points : 191 Joined: 8/27/2011 Location: Parma, OH, US Status: offline Group Account MBI: 125 Pnts MBI Site: Marine Breeding Initiative (MBI) Re:Why are Bangaiis not being commercially raised? Monday, September 26, 2011 6:11 PM (permalink) 0 Ok, just wondering where everyone stands on this. As i start working on a business plan for a larger facility I would like to have a setup specifically dedicated to them. Just wondering if its worth the money and time and why the big boys were not dealing with them. Now i know. Mike Meadows Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/thecoralshoppe Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheCoralShoppe?feature=mhee     #7 Caesra Total Posts : 317 Scores: 2 Reward points : 195 Joined: 7/4/2011 Location: Cherry Valley, IL, US Status: offline MBI: 80 Pnts MBI Site: Marine Breeding Initiative (MBI) Re:Why are Bangaiis not being commercially raised? Tuesday, September 27, 2011 12:49 AM (permalink) 0 just fyi..I don't know what it is like elsewhere, but WC Bangaii can be bought in our area for under $10.  Retailers are bringing them in for 2-3 a pop.  At least in my area, the arguement of profitability is very real around here.  The shops I sell to are ones who simply are very objected to WCs and wish to personally promote CB Bangs.        #8 TheCoralShoppe Total Posts : 158 Scores: 4 Reward points : 191 Joined: 8/27/2011 Location: Parma, OH, US Status: offline Group Account MBI: 125 Pnts MBI Site: Marine Breeding Initiative (MBI) Re:Why are Bangaiis not being commercially raised? Tuesday, September 27, 2011 3:35 AM (permalink) 0 Wow that's not a lot of profit margin if they are selling for lees than $10.00 each. Even transhipping them (and i just checked this weeks lists) I can't get them for less than $5.00 and when you figure in shipping costs, i would have $12.00 or more per fish in them. Seems like these business are not really making any money off of them. and obviously not taking into account for the dead ones. I never buy WC ones though, except for when i was trying to get a brood stock pair. And at that i started out with 10 and only ended up with two. Another example of poor business practices keeping a superior product from being sold. Mike Meadows Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/thecoralshoppe Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheCoralShoppe?feature=mhee     #9 KathyL Total Posts : 2639 Scores: 13 Reward points : 1504 Joined: 6/6/2010 Location: St. Louis, MO, US Status: offline MBI: 1605 Pnts MBI Site: Marine Aquarium Societies of North America Re:Why are Bangaiis not being commercially raised? Tuesday, September 27, 2011 6:49 AM (permalink) 0 My best success with getting these fish to live was by buying the stock from a local breeder. What is your success with shipping them? My local breeder, a mom and pop, decided they were not worth the trouble, and stopped doing banggais, so I am looking for captive bred ones now.     #10 xroads Total Posts : 61 Scores: 0 Reward points : 684 Joined: 9/30/2010 Location: La Porte City, IA, US Status: offline MBI: 0 Pnts MBI Site: Marine Breeding Initiative (MBI) Re:Why are Bangaiis not being commercially raised? Tuesday, September 27, 2011 7:02 AM (permalink) 0 Originally Posted by Caesra just fyi..I don't know what it is like elsewhere, but WC Bangaii can be bought in our area for under $10.  Retailers are bringing them in for 2-3 a pop.  At least in my area, the arguement of profitability is very real around here.  The shops I sell to are ones who simply are very objected to WCs and wish to personally promote CB Bangs.  I think they are filling you full of @#$$!!!   WC Banggaiis usually wholesale to the store for $6-$8 + shipping.  Then you have a 75% + death rate from wild Banggaiis.   #11 Barelycuda Total Posts : 186 Scores: 2 Reward points : 829 Joined: 3/20/2010 Location: Vancouver, WA, US Status: offline MBI Site: Marine Breeding Initiative (MBI) Re:Why are Bangaiis not being commercially raised? Tuesday, September 27, 2011 7:24 AM (permalink) 0 I kind of agree with the BS comment.  I can buy them directly from my wholesaler who is getting them from oversees.  I pay $8.00 wholesale when I am looking for broodstock and then there is the QT and death rate so I'm not quite believing the $2 wholesale thing.   #12 TheCoralShoppe Total Posts : 158 Scores: 4 Reward points : 191 Joined: 8/27/2011 Location: Parma, OH, US Status: offline Group Account MBI: 125 Pnts MBI Site: Marine Breeding Initiative (MBI) Re:Why are Bangaiis not being commercially raised? Tuesday, September 27, 2011 9:13 AM (permalink) 0 Exactly. Really only those of us that are trying to breed them should be buying them from the wild. And even then the losses on them are horrible. They are just not good shippers. Its hard to even get a good group for display purposes. We really need to get the captive bred numbers up on these guys. Mike Meadows Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/thecoralshoppe Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheCoralShoppe?feature=mhee     #13 sgraber Total Posts : 23 Scores: 0 Reward points : 133 Joined: 9/13/2011 Location: Middlebury, IN, US Status: offline MBI: 0 Pnts MBI Site: Marine Breeding Initiative (MBI) Re:Why are Bangaiis not being commercially raised? Tuesday, September 27, 2011 9:47 AM (permalink) 0 OK. I'll follow up with the next logical question: what is the most efficient/effective way to create a pair from WC banggais? Obviously get a group of them but is there any way to accellerate pair formation?  Also what do you do with the excess fish that don't pair?   #14 Caesra Total Posts : 317 Scores: 2 Reward points : 195 Joined: 7/4/2011 Location: Cherry Valley, IL, US Status: offline MBI: 80 Pnts MBI Site: Marine Breeding Initiative (MBI) Re:Why are Bangaiis not being commercially raised? Tuesday, September 27, 2011 10:41 AM (permalink) 0 Originally Posted by xroads Originally Posted by Caesra just fyi..I don't know what it is like elsewhere, but WC Bangaii can be bought in our area for under $10.  Retailers are bringing them in for 2-3 a pop.  At least in my area, the arguement of profitability is very real around here.  The shops I sell to are ones who simply are very objected to WCs and wish to personally promote CB Bangs.  I think they are filling you full of @#$$!!! WC Banggaiis usually wholesale to the store for $6-$8 + shipping.  Then you have a 75% + death rate from wild Banggaiis. That's what I thought until one was willing to show me the invoice.   #15 Caesra Total Posts : 317 Scores: 2 Reward points : 195 Joined: 7/4/2011 Location: Cherry Valley, IL, US Status: offline MBI: 80 Pnts MBI Site: Marine Breeding Initiative (MBI) Re:Why are Bangaiis not being commercially raised? Tuesday, September 27, 2011 10:47 AM (permalink) 0 Originally Posted by sgraber OK. I'll follow up with the next logical question: what is the most efficient/effective way to create a pair from WC banggais? Obviously get a group of them but is there any way to accellerate pair formation?  Also what do you do with the excess fish that don't pair? I don't know what is the most efficient way, but I am doing this project ...more out of curiosity..... http://www.mbisite.org/Forums/tm.aspx?m=59620   I only have 11 at this point, and I would not say I am far enough along to suggest I have made it with out deaths.  My last attempt to for a series of WC pairs result in a total loss.     #16 KathyL Total Posts : 2639 Scores: 13 Reward points : 1504 Joined: 6/6/2010 Location: St. Louis, MO, US Status: offline MBI: 1605 Pnts MBI Site: Marine Aquarium Societies of North America Re:Why are Bangaiis not being commercially raised? Tuesday, September 27, 2011 4:57 PM (permalink) 0 How to pair them? I think the best strategy is to buy young ones in a group and wait until you can recognize a pair, separate the pair and wait for another pair to form, etc.  I did this with a young group of 5 and got two pairs from it, they never spawned satisfactorily, but I did get pairs.  Excess unpaired fish can be sold to a LFS. No problem.   #17 efren villegas Total Posts : 423 Scores: 0 Reward points : 357 Joined: 12/16/2010 Location: Mexico City, México, MX Status: offline MBI: 1870 Pnts MBI Site: Marine Breeding Initiative (MBI) Re:Why are Bangaiis not being commercially raised? Wednesday, September 28, 2011 5:44 AM (permalink) 0 Well here i mexico i can get wc for 3.50 each but they die a lot so i am trying to breed them comercially but i am waiting for f1 to beggin breeding maybe at the end of the year i will have 10 breeding pairs   #18 JGS240 Total Posts : 10 Scores: 0 Reward points : 28 Joined: 12/29/2011 Location: Wateford, MI, US Status: offline MBI: 0 Pnts MBI Site: Marine Breeding Initiative (MBI) Re:Why are Bangaiis not being commercially raised? Thursday, December 29, 2011 10:03 AM (permalink) 0 Originally Posted by jeff@zina.com Probably the biggest reason is there's no current process that fits in with the larger aquaculture operations.  My guess is it would rely on stripping eggs and maximizing production, 3-5 males per female maybe, and a change in the layout and operations of a plant.  Which means it really isn't going to be economically done (no real return value) for some time.  Then, all of a sudden, we'll be flooded with $4 CB Bangaiis...  Possibility:  Pond breeding. Jeff   Matt touched on this as well.  Like you said, "pond" breeding is the best bet with these guys on a large scale.  Mom & Pop as well....   Example: Tropicorium!  They have a huge vat filled with live rock that must have 8-10 pairs constantly producing babys.  They just dip out what they need to sell every week and thats that.    If someone in Florida setup a similar system i could see it working easily.     #19 sgraber Total Posts : 23 Scores: 0 Reward points : 133 Joined: 9/13/2011 Location: Middlebury, IN, US Status: offline MBI: 0 Pnts MBI Site: Marine Breeding Initiative (MBI) Re:Why are Bangaiis not being commercially raised? Thursday, December 29, 2011 10:12 AM (permalink) 0 How big of a pond do you think one would need to accomplish it this way?   #20 Online Bookmarks Sharing: Facebook Digg Google del.icio.us StumbleUpon Change Page: 12 > | Showing page 1 of 2, messages 1 to 20 of 40 - powered by ASPPlayground.NET Forum Trial Version

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