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Losing Clownfish larvae After first 8 hours after hatch
Wednesday, January 18, 2012 8:51 AM
( permalink)
I have been raising Ocellaris and Percula "onyx" clowns for about a year now. I have a problem with losing the entire batch of clowns of either species within 8 hours after hatch. I have had some good batches that when they make it past 8 hours I raise them up without any major losses. I cannot seem to put a finger on what may be the problem. Once they hatch the larvae look pretty good and are swimming around and active. They seem to start eating right away if I add rotifiers. My rotifiers are grown on rotigrow plus in 5 gallon buckets. I have been using a 5.5 gallon tank with the four sides of the tank blacked out with a garbage bag, the bottom pane is light colored. I use a 50watt heater and an airstone with adjustable airflow. The airstone is placed under the heater. I use a clip on light with a 13 wattt compact flourscent bulb for lighting. I have had the most success when lighting the larvae tank 24 hours a day until they are four days old. II have tried keeping the tank dark for the first 8 hours and putting no rotifiers or greenwater in and had the same results. Up until the last batch I have lightly tinted the larvae water green with rotigrow plus. For the last batch I switched to rotigreen omega and still lost the entire hatch. The temperature of the tank is 80F and the salinity 1.025 which is the same as the broodstock system. Both species of eggs hatch on night 8. I have just found out on the broodstock tank that my apex was not calibrated correctly so the temperature was around 78-79. I have adjusted it to 80 but the first set of eggs at the new temperature still hatched as 8 days. I have tried letting the eggs hatch in the broodstock system and artificially hatching them. I tend to get better results hatching them in the larvae tank but losses can be seen either way. The parents are feed three times daily with Rods food original and breeders blend, formula one and spectrum pellets and mysis shrimp and pacific plankton. The ocellaris spawn every 10-11 days and the onyx about every 15 days Somes things I plan to try on the next batch is maybe changing the light bulb to a 9 watt compact flourscent bulb and blacking out the bottom of the tank. I think the lighter color bottom may be reflecting light and attracting the larvae to the bottom. If anyone has any other ideas please let me know Thanks
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Re:Losing Clownfish larvae After first 8 hours after hatch
Wednesday, January 18, 2012 9:51 AM
( permalink)
One of two things. - Water quality - What is your starting water?
- Broodstock diet - I see you mix it up pretty good, try to add some more varity to it. Try feeding 4-5 times, but a little less food each time.
Also, only use RotiGreen and dont go back to RotiGrow - People have nothing but problems on RotiGrow. What are you hatching them in?
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Re:Losing Clownfish larvae After first 8 hours after hatch
Wednesday, January 18, 2012 10:10 AM
( permalink)
are you using the water from the parents tank or mixing it to match?
RLTW 180 Gallon Mixed Reef Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
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Re:Losing Clownfish larvae After first 8 hours after hatch
Wednesday, January 18, 2012 10:18 AM
( permalink)
I am using water from the broodstock tank to hatch them in. My broodstock system is attached to my 240 gallon reef. There is 400 gallons of water on the system and has typically reef water parameters (PH 8.0-8.1, No nitrite of ammonium, Nitrates less than 10, phosphate .02-.03, Alk 10, Calcium 440, Mag 1360). The eggs are typically hatched in the 5.5 larvae tank. Sometimes I have collected the larvae in the broodstock system but I have not done so in the last 6 months or so.
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Re:Losing Clownfish larvae After first 8 hours after hatch
Wednesday, January 18, 2012 10:26 AM
( permalink)
I used to do mine in a 5 gallon tank, but was told that a 10 was even better. Fill it halfway. You may want to try that. I was having major losses too.
RLTW 180 Gallon Mixed Reef Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
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Re:Losing Clownfish larvae After first 8 hours after hatch
Wednesday, January 18, 2012 10:28 AM
( permalink)
How many times have you tired and failed?
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Re:Losing Clownfish larvae After first 8 hours after hatch
Wednesday, January 18, 2012 10:37 AM
( permalink)
I was thinking about trying a larger tank, or a black round tub. I would say that this has happened to me with entire losses of the hatch or the majority (maybe 5-10 left) 20-25 times. I have had 6 batches where I have gotten 40-100 fish past 60 days)
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Re:Losing Clownfish larvae After first 8 hours after hatch
Wednesday, January 18, 2012 12:10 PM
( permalink)
I have been told to use rotigreen for the larval tank because the other stuff can suffocate the fry, did you at some point change the algae you were using for the larval tank?
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Re:Losing Clownfish larvae After first 8 hours after hatch
Wednesday, January 18, 2012 12:34 PM
( permalink)
The last batch I used rotigreen omega and lost everything again. Before that batch everything had been done with varying levels of rotigrow plus. Even without the rotigrow I had batches that would die within 8 hours of hatch in complete darkness.
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Re:Losing Clownfish larvae After first 8 hours after hatch
Wednesday, January 18, 2012 8:43 PM
( permalink)
I would try a 10g tank if it is not a problem for you. I agree with rgrking that a 10g tank is better. Fill it with 5g of broodstock water and hatch as usual. I personally use a 10g tank with the standard 10g incandescent tops with 15w bulbs in it. I just went to petco and bought 5ft. of the black backing for the tank. It is exactly twice the height of a 10g tanks so you can cut it in half and black out 2 tanks with one piece of backing. I like it because after meta it can be taken off and rolled up to use on another tank when needed and it wraps around the tank nicely. My bottoms of the tanks are sitting on a white table so the bottom it light so I don't think that is your problem. I light the tanks 24/7 thru meta with my clowns and can consistently have survival rates of 90%+ from hatch thru meta. The rotigreen omega is a much better greenwater for the larval tank but I still use the rotigrow for the rotifer cultures.
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Re:Losing Clownfish larvae After first 8 hours after hatch
Wednesday, January 18, 2012 9:24 PM
( permalink)
I use standard 10G tanks that are painted black on 3 sides, the end is covered with black corrugated plastic until settlement, then removed for viewing. I start with 5 gallons of water from the broodstock system and increase the volume with new SW and FW for evap. I remove tiles with eggs on hatch night and cover the tanks so they are dark for hatching. If I pull the tiles early in the evening I sometimes add rotifers at that time. Usually I wait until the morning after hatch to add rotifers and RotiGreen. I light the fry tank with a CF clamp light for 14hrs a day. They do get some ambient light in the morning before I turn the light on as the larval tanks are located closer to the window. This method works for me about 95% of the time. Once in a while I'll lose a batch for no apparent reason.
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Re:Losing Clownfish larvae After first 8 hours after hatch
Wednesday, January 18, 2012 9:35 PM
( permalink)
Do you bleach and dechlorinate the tank first? I dont think that bacteria is your problem, though. too soon for that.
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Re:Losing Clownfish larvae After first 8 hours after hatch
Thursday, January 19, 2012 7:29 AM
( permalink)
I clean the tank and let it dry out before I use the tank again. I have not tried bleaching the tank though prior to use. I do have a 10 gallon tank so I will give that a shot this time. Otherwise I seem to doing the same basic steps as everyone else.
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Re:Losing Clownfish larvae After first 8 hours after hatch
Thursday, January 19, 2012 4:46 PM
( permalink)
To be honest with you I have not bleached a tank in over 4 years. Now granted my tanks are on a 16 tank system with water in them all the time. When I am ready for a new batch of larva I shut off the water to the tank, pull the standpipe to drain the water to the sump and then add 5g of broodstock water.
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Re:Losing Clownfish larvae After first 8 hours after hatch
Thursday, January 19, 2012 7:50 PM
( permalink)
I just setup for a hatch tonight. I have a new 10 gallon tank setup as suggested. Hopefully I will have better results.
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Re:Losing Clownfish larvae After first 8 hours after hatch
Thursday, January 19, 2012 8:08 PM
( permalink)
Bleaching is one of those things that I do because when I did them, I had great survival. Perhaps I would have great survival if I did not bleach, but its so easy to do, that I don't want to take the chance that not doing it may not work.
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Re:Losing Clownfish larvae After first 8 hours after hatch
Friday, January 20, 2012 4:44 PM
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This looks like still one more case of PMD or first night death.A very old clown breeders pest,but people seem to forget it and remain clueless about this problem.
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Re:Losing Clownfish larvae After first 8 hours after hatch
Friday, January 20, 2012 6:08 PM
( permalink)
I had this happen a couple times. I would transfer water, move tile, and add Rotifers and RG+. Previously I had added the Rotifers and RG+ the next morning. Maybe completely off base but I felt I was rapidly depleting oxygen levels by adding such heavy rotifer dose so quickly. I went back to adding rots the next morning and it didn't happen again. Kind of a guess.
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Re:Losing Clownfish larvae After first 8 hours after hatch
Friday, January 20, 2012 11:10 PM
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Thanks for all the feedback, I noticed something on the last batch. The larvae seem to be attracted to the airstone and seem to be getting trapped under or around it. How much flow should be coming out of the airstone or do you even you and airstone? I known in Wilkersons book it talks about not bubbling them too hard or you may damage them. What is too much in your experience?
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Re:Losing Clownfish larvae After first 8 hours after hatch
Friday, January 20, 2012 11:10 PM
( permalink)
This looks like still one more case of PMD or first night death.A very old clown breeders pest,but people seem to forget it and remain clueless about this problem. I would be interested in knowing more
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