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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Centropyge bispinosa
Wednesday, February 5, 2014 4:12 PM
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I think switching the lights will have to be my solution. Removing the other fish would require dismantling the whole reef since my corals are so large. I can run the actinics with a switched extension cord and sit in front of the tank. Then we'll see who is faster.... me on the switch, or the fish!
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Centropyge bispinosa
Sunday, February 16, 2014 1:08 AM
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Any luck yet? pumps off should help too. You mentioned it took you 30 seconds to get into the fishroom...I assume that means you're watching from the front, but have to access the tank from the rear? Perhaps try just being there standing overhead and watch and wait...vs. out in front. They're reef fish..they're probably not that averse to you watching from overhead....not like there's herons on the reef...
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Centropyge bispinosa
Sunday, February 16, 2014 2:03 AM
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I forgot to ask this earlier, but how are you going to get the eggs out of your overflow box? Is there a net you'll stuff in there? Or is there standing water in the overflow box where you can get a cup or something down there to skim eggs off the surface? I'm sure you've handled the egg collection issue but don't remember if you said how. I'd highly recommend a larval snagger. In this case, just a tub with a little vertical height, a variable flow powerhead at the bottom, and something to hold it steady just under the water level (or with holes at water level) so that it will skim the eggs off the surface.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Centropyge bispinosa
Sunday, February 16, 2014 4:47 PM
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Still working on egg collection. I have sat in wait for the spawning, and then tried to shut off the lights immediately after egg release. I still haven't been able to isolate any eggs. I gave up on the overflow system (I did place a 120 micron screen in there over the durso inlet, which I had extended to near the bottom of the overflow to minimize eggs getting pulled into the screen - this kept my water level high in the overflow for the eggs to float, with the water being pulled from near the bottom of it. Nonetheless, I never collected any in there, most likely due to the anthias & chromis). It's frustrating to see the eggs released and immediately be eaten by the others, who now hang very near the pair at spawn time. One question I have for those of you with centropyge spawning experience - I have never seen my pair do the rapid rise others describe. They just hover & quiver together near the surface, and then the female will dart off as she releases the eggs which are in somewhat of a cluster. Usually one of the other nearby fish immediately swallow the whole cluster in one chomp. I need to get another video of them spawning to demonstrate their "technique". Does anyone have video of a pair showing the "rapid rise"?
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Centropyge bispinosa
Sunday, February 16, 2014 9:59 PM
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I don't have a video. In my experience there usually isn't a classic rise from the bottom of the tank to the top. The male spends the evening chasing and nuzzling, they do some shimmying, and in a split second they get to the top, release gametes and go back down. The last part of the rise may only be 6", or it can be several feet. But I've seen a lot more short rushes than tall ones.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Centropyge bispinosa
Monday, February 17, 2014 1:15 PM
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That sounds like what my pair consistently does.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Centropyge bispinosa
Monday, February 17, 2014 2:44 PM
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Then they are a normal married couple and now you don't have to pay a marriage counselor to see if they're doing it right. Whew, that saves a lot of money!
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Centropyge bispinosa
Monday, March 3, 2014 8:38 AM
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Eggs? I was down by my tank at about 10pm last night, not really paying too much attention to it, when I noticed the anthias and chromis seemed to go into a feeding frenzy. I turned out all the lights and shut down the pumps. Looking with a flashlight, it appeared that there were some of the tiny silvery eggs still drifting around. I ran my fine net around in the water and think I collected a few of them. Anyone with experience with centropyge eggs please chime in as to whether this is an actual egg. I don't have any Isochrysis or parvocalanus cultures yet, so these are just for observation. The image is at 10x with the scope, looks like a tiny fried egg! I estimate size between 0.5-0.75mm. Watching some of the eggs in the tank, I noticed that they did not seem to head straight for the surface as I thought they would; they seemed to be very slowly rising. Again, my experience with these is very limited, so I'm not sure how fast they should rise to the surface.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Centropyge bispinosa
Monday, March 3, 2014 10:12 AM
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Yes that certainly looks one and you've got the size estimate correct. I never looked at fresh eggs under the microscope so I can't help you for certain, but I believe you're right. I've heard that the eggs float better and collection is easier at full salinity, which makes sense. Some people keep their salinity on the low end on the theory that its less osmoregulatory work for their animals, which also makes sense.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Centropyge bispinosa
Monday, March 3, 2014 11:00 AM
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Here's a pic from today, at 12 hours post spawn. The above pic was essentially at 0 hours after spawn. Maybe a slightly larger embryo pole on the egg? The s.g. on my tank is at 1.025. I'll have to pay a bit more attention to the eggs in the future to see how buoyant they are. I have to work until late tonight, so I'll check tomorrow to see if there is any more development.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Centropyge bispinosa
Monday, March 3, 2014 11:05 AM
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If the eggs still seem alive tomorrow, I'll try to get some better images, larger magnification. My apologies for the quality, I'm taking these by holding my iPhone up to the ocular of the scope. I need to buy an adaptor!
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Centropyge bispinosa
Monday, March 3, 2014 1:21 PM
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do you have a culture of parvo started?
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Centropyge bispinosa
Monday, March 3, 2014 3:19 PM
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I've been waiting till the weather warms up a bit before ordering starter cultures. This winter has been brutal here in Indy! I plan to start isochrysis, chaetoceros, and parvo. Everytime I go into my fish room, I try to imagine where I'm going to put all these new cultures! I think I need to build a new rack.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Centropyge bispinosa
Monday, March 3, 2014 7:01 PM
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if you do a rack, do it right. put sterile water on top, phyto next, copepods in the middle and larvae at the bottom. then automate it with a controller and solenoids or dosing pumps.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Centropyge bispinosa
Tuesday, March 4, 2014 12:07 PM
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Absolute total rookie mistake on my part, so dumb I had to laugh at myself. I have had the eggs in a small plastic container floating in my frag tank , uncovered. I went to look at the eggs today, and noticed it looked like less water in the container. I checked the s.g., and it was about 1.045! I started lowering the s.g. slowly, but suspect the eggs are totally pickled. I'll try to get the s.g. back to normal by this evening and look at the eggs. I still have 3-4 that I can see in the container. Next time I will keep the container covered to prevent evaporation. Wow, somewhat embarrassed to forget the most basic saltwater parameter!
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Centropyge bispinosa
Tuesday, March 4, 2014 11:44 PM
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You're in good company, I started saltwater keeping in 1985 and still make rookie mistakes!
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Centropyge bispinosa
Thursday, March 6, 2014 2:00 PM
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Interestingly enough, the eggs appear unchanged as of today (3 days now) from the last photo. I'm surprised they haven't been eaten by ciliates, which I do see when I look at them with the scope. I'm sure they are no longer viable since there is absolutely no further development, but I'll just wait until they disappear on their own, or I get some more to observe. I may try to grab some eggs again tonight if I get home in time.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Centropyge bispinosa
Thursday, May 8, 2014 8:25 AM
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Thought I would scoot over to your thread now that we both have dwarf angels spawning Based on what I have seen with the eggs I've gotten and the ones that hatched, if by the morning after the spawn you don't see some development, you can probably assume the eggs are not good/not fertilized. Maybe you could put a small piece of plexiglass or even plastic wrap over top of the container with the eggs to reduce evaporation. I've been using a scrap piece of plexi myself.
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Centropyge bispinosa
Thursday, May 8, 2014 8:49 AM
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I found this. Pg 111 of the document, there are pictures of eggs and various development/egg quality categories https://www.library.umain...s/pdf/CallanCK2007.pdf The first egg pic you posted looks sort of like a fertilized, but inviable egg to me. The second egg pic you posted looks more like an unfertilized egg (I can't see that darker ring around the oil globule). That pdf also has some variations on egg collectors. I may try making one myself this weekend...
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Re:Breeding Journal, Species: Centropyge bispinosa
Thursday, May 8, 2014 4:37 PM
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Shannon, Thanks for that article. I think I mostly need to work on egg collection at this time. I've been losing the vast majority of eggs to the chromis & anthias. I have tried the stalking technique, shutting off all lights as soon as I think I see them spawn, with only marginal success. I have collected up to 20 eggs, and kept them in a small covered container in my sump, but have never seen any significant development. My fish are pigs, and well fed, so brood stock nutrition shouldn't be a problem. I recently got one of those large 200 micron sieves (designed for a 5 gallon bucket) that I need to plumb my overflow through. if I can start getting viable eggs, my next step will be getting a parvocalanus culture running. If only my day job didn't interfere with my hobby so much!
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